How Flagrant Magazine is Serving Casual Basketball Fans with Alex Haigh
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On this episode of Tea Time, Skylar Smith and Brian Bosché are joined by Alex Haigh Co-Founder and Designer of Flagrant Magazine, which has been featured on places like The Jump on ESPN and FanSided. Flagrant Magazine is an all-inclusive print publication that unearths the stories surrounding the culture of basketball, including the artists, communities, projects, and fans. Created by women for all hoops fans, Flagrant amplifies the quiet and unheard voices in basketball and covers issues like mental health, inequality, and activism. Skylar and Brian chat with Alex about how Flagrant was started, what it's like launching a print magazine in the digital era, and how basketball culture is so much more than games and stats.
Full Transcript:
Skylar Smith:
Hi everyone, and welcome back to High Tea Hoops.
Brian Bosche:
High Tea Hoops.
Skylar Smith:
This is Skylar, the Duchess of Hoops. Back with Brian, the Duke of Hoops as always. Brian, I just realized I never introduced myself last pod.
Brian Bosche:
That's okay. We can't always have it perfect, Skylar.
Skylar Smith:
[crosstalk 00:00:20] people know who I am at this point, if you've been listening. I'm so excited today to introduce our guest. We have with us Alex Haigh, the co-founder and designer of Flagrant Magazine. Alex, how's it going?
Alex Haigh:
It's going really well. How are you guys?
Skylar Smith:
Great. We're so excited to be talking to you today.
Alex Haigh:
Same here, I'm stoked. Ever since I heard of... First of all, the name of the podcast is great.
Brian Bosche:
Thank you.
Alex Haigh:
I was like that is something I totally dig. And then when you guys reached out to me, I was like, "Me? All right, fair."
Skylar Smith:
To be fair, we did, we named High Tea Hoops, and then Tea with A and Phee came out a month later, and we were like, "Oh, people are going to group us together and think we just copied them. But..." [crosstalk 00:01:04]
Brian Bosche:
Theirs is afternoon tea, ours is high tea, it's the heartier meal, more closer to the end of the day, so it's different. Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
There's subtleties in teas, for sure.
Skylar Smith:
There is definitely a distinction there to be drawn, definitely.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, absolutely.
Skylar Smith:
So let's get into our discussion. I'm obsessed with Flagrant Magazine. I have been for a while.
Brian Bosche:
She is, Alex.
Skylar Smith:
I introduced Brian to it last summer. I was like, "Have you seen this basketball magazine?" It felt like something that I had never seen honestly. It felt like a basketball magazine for me and it felt like growing up, there was always a lot of sports magazines and basketball magazines, but it never quite felt like they were for me, it felt like they were very boy-oriented. It shouldn't really be broken up like that, but there just wasn't really a ton in there for me, and so I've loved following Flagrant and I've loved reading. I have the first issue here with me. It's beautiful.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, there it is.
Brian Bosche:
God, it looks good. And Skylar, you're so young, I'm surprised you even saw magazines.
Skylar Smith:
I remember it now in elementary school.
Brian Bosche:
I was like Sports Illustrated for kids was the ultimate thing that gets delivered to you, it was incredible.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. It was early elementary school for me before that got phased out. So I barely remember it, but I do. But let's get into it, can you just tell us how Flagrant came about? How did this idea start? Why was a magazine the medium you chose, how did this all come about?
Alex Haigh:
Well, it's kind of funny that we chose a medium that was completely non-digital, because that's how all of the founders met. Ashtyn, the editor-in-chief, was the person who brought it to each of us individually, actually asking, "Hey, I'm thinking about starting a magazine and would you want to be a part of it?" And when she asked me, I was like, "Well, I mean, I know a little bit of Adobe, I can put together a graphic, I can probably lay out something." And that's kind of where it started. She asked each of us individually and we were all like, "Yeah, that sounds good. Print media? That's got to be the future, right?"
Brian Bosche:
Everything's coming back.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, exactly.
Brian Bosche:
It's all cycles.
Alex Haigh:
It kind of is. Yeah. That's really how it started is Ashtyn reached out to us and just asked if we wanted to be a part of creating a magazine and, being a designer on the magazine that was not something I had done before. I mean, I'd done graphics for Rip Twitty and other things before, but this was a brand new venture for me. So, but yeah, I mean, I agree. I grew up with magazines to a certain extent and I would agree with you that basketball magazines or sports magazines in general were really geared toward either men or people that were sort of celebrity worshipers, sort of here's a feature on this celebrity. Here's his favorite meal, for some reason you should care about that.
Alex Haigh:
But there's some part of it missing, at least when it was only professional sports that were covered, that we felt that there was an opportunity. So where we fill that gap is we try to provide content on the community and the artists and just all the little pockets of community surrounding basketball that are so much more than the professional side of sports. And I think in that sense, that's maybe why you felt like it was for you Skylar.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
It just felt like something that was visually pleasing, but it wasn't forcing the same type of stories down your throat that maybe you'd seen in other magazines. So...
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, for sure.
Brian Bosche:
And your crew is from Portland for the most part, and you've done a lot covering the Blazers. So do you want to talk a little bit about how you've covered basketball and kind of your background in basketball in general?
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. I mean, I grew up playing basketball, so that's really where I started. And then got into basketball Twitter, which was brand new to me. As soon as I got on Twitter in 2013, I was like, "Okay, this is my jam. Let's do this."
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, exactly.
Alex Haigh:
I jumped right in. And then I had met a lot of my, actually my best friends now I've met through basketball Twitter, and we started Rip Twitty which was, which is... Blazers Twitter is called... Rip City is what Blazers-
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
Portland is called as far as basketball. So Rip Twitty is Rip City Twitter. And we basically threw watch parties, had events. We had a lot of community-based things that we did. So that's where I started. And then from that, I was recommended to try out for this job as a co-host on Blazers Outsiders, which is an NBC Sports Northwest show and I got that. So for a season I was doing off day shows and the pre and post game show with the guys.
Brian Bosche:
That's amazing.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, it was an incredible experience. And yeah, somewhere in between there, started a magazine.
Brian Bosche:
You're like, I'm done with this TV thing. Let's do print magazines.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
It's the evolution.
Alex Haigh:
You know those billionaire people types who are, they're always like, I'm going to start jumping out of planes now. Well, now I want to start doing this.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
That's me. I'm just never satisfied.
Brian Bosche:
Multimedia mogul. That's what you should...
Skylar Smith:
Yes.
Alex Haigh:
Exactly.
Brian Bosche:
That should be the LinkedIn. And on this point, do you still play? I mean, post COVID but, or pre COVID? Do you still hoop?
Alex Haigh:
No, I got to be honest with you. Honestly, even when I did hoop, no, it wasn't great.
Brian Bosche:
I ask because I've been trying to get Skylar to get back into it and do it. And she's just like, I just, I was going to ask for some training, but she's just like, no.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, my God.
Skylar Smith:
I haven't played in probably 10 years. And so I just know that, just getting back into playing shape itself is just going to be such... that's a full-time job to me in my brain.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, yeah.
Skylar Smith:
And then just knowing how awkward and silly everything's going to look for the first month. I don't feel like doing it.
Alex Haigh:
That's a lot of work. Basketball is no joke. I mean, that is a full body conditioning plan that you got to get on. And then you just have to hope that you're not too old, that you're going to tear your ACL as soon as you pull up for a jumper. And I can't trust that...
Skylar Smith:
Brian said that to me, he just put that in my brain. He's like, "The only thing you're going to have to worry about is ACL." So I'm like, "Okay, that's a big worry."
Brian Bosche:
It is.
Alex Haigh:
Exactly. As I get older, I already wake up with weird ghost pain. I don't need to force that upon myself. I'll let other people play and I'll just write about it or take pictures about it. I'm fine with that.
Skylar Smith:
I feel like she's backing me up Brian. I feel like that plan's backfired on you. So,
Brian Bosche:
As long as you'll be in Tik Toks with me and shoot hoo... Maybe play a little horse, I'm fine with that. We can just do that.
Skylar Smith:
Brian, I already do this for you. Speaking of Rip Twitty though, can you tell us how you landed on the name Flagrant? Because I have an idea that I think might be part of it, but I'm not sure.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, okay.
Brian Bosche:
Skylar, do you want to throw it out? I want to hear yours before.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, yeah.
Skylar Smith:
I wanted to give her the chance to actually tell us if it was going to be real so that if I was wrong, we could avoid a fight.
Brian Bosche:
Oh no, I want to fight. That's good podcasting.
Skylar Smith:
Okay.
Brian Bosche:
That's what people want.
Skylar Smith:
You guys are Blazers fans. I tend to think of Rasheed Wallace as a Piston.
Brian Bosche:
Okay. I like where this is going.
Skylar Smith:
See, this is the fight I was avoiding.
Brian Bosche:
She's going somewhere off screen.
Skylar Smith:
Yes.
Brian Bosche:
Oh, yes.
Skylar Smith:
I need one of those. That is incredible. She just pulled out a Sheed candle.
Alex Haigh:
Yes, it's a Sheed [crosstalk 00:08:35] candle it's helped me through hard times.
Skylar Smith:
I think everyone needs a Sheed candle. Does the name have anything to do with Sheed and that era of the Blazers?
Alex Haigh:
I wish that it had more to do with Sheed because Sheed is my favorite Blazer but honestly, Ashtyn was just throwing out names. She was just throwing out names one day in the group chat and Flagrant, we just landed on it because it just felt right. It felt like what we were doing, which was a women-run sports magazine like, "Oh, that might make some people mad." And then covering women's sports in addition to men's sports like, "Oh, that might ruffle some feathers." So we just felt like Flagrant was the direction we wanted to take the magazine as far as our attitude toward what kind of content we're going to produce.
Brian Bosche:
Such a great name.
Alex Haigh:
So Sheed was always there.
Skylar Smith:
It is a great name.
Alex Haigh:
Thank you. That's Ashtyn, yeah.
Skylar Smith:
It's also fun because anytime someone actually gets a Flagrant in a game, people tag you guys and you guys get to hop on social and make little jokes about it. It's like your name is always coming up.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. That's due to our amazing social media manager, Sierra. She is incredible. Ashtyn actually found her on Twitter I believe, because Sierra had posted a rating of NBA players as far as how hot they were, but her reasoning was absolutely bonkers. And Ashtyn was like, "Okay, her sense of humor is exactly the kind of person I want to get to know." And so she found her in that way. And then we were like, "We need her to be a part of Flagrant somehow." And she has been one of the best additions we could have ever brought to Flagrant. So,
Brian Bosche:
Yeah. So speaking of your team...
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, she's doing a great job.
Brian Bosche:
How big is it? Who is involved? What does it take to produce this magazine? Love to hear more about the team behind Flagrant.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, definitely. Four of us are founders and then Sierra. But Sierra is definitely right up there with us as far as the level of involvement and work. So it's myself as a designer, Ashtyn is our editor-in-chief. Bethany is our creative director on the West Coast. And Brazilia is our creative director and also sort of our business manager working off from the East Coast. So, Brazilia's in New York, Bethany's in Oakland, Ashtyn and I are in Portland and then Sierra's currently in California.
Brian Bosche:
That is a small team to get all [crosstalk 00:11:02]
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, so it is very small.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
It is so small when we first started it, we were like, "Oh, we have all the manpower to get this thing going." And that's probably exactly what you'd think if you've never produced a magazine before, because you just have no idea the kind of work that goes into it. But because this is really a community-based project, all the contacts and networking we've done and contacts we've made through just being on Twitter or, Ashtyn has a past in production, video production with the Pac-12 Network.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
So she's got all sorts of experience there. We just called upon our friends to see if they wanted to be a part of something new and special. And we were so fortunate that so many people were willing to put in time, art, man hours just to help. So it is five people, but it's hundreds of people because we rely so heavily on our community to provide us with really cool stuff, because that's what we're trying to share. We're trying to share, you haven't heard of this guy but he makes Nike shoes out of ceramic, out of porcelain and here's his story. And I just think it's so important that the community part is there because that's how we get these smaller stories out there. The stuff that you don't hear about. So, and I just can't say enough about our contributors, how they've and especially for issue two coming out during the pandemic where we couldn't fly anywhere, we couldn't do what we normally do, have shoots set up.
Skylar Smith:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Alex Haigh:
Man, people really came through for us and it's been amazing. The fact that we even got issue two, I still don't know how we did it.
Brian Bosche:
Well, it's also empowering to hear that the team is small because that shows that if other, if you're interested and if you're a listener right now and you want to do something, it doesn't have to be a magazine but anything, you can do it with a smaller team and the community can support you. And I think that's so encouraging to get more people into it.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, for sure. And like... Oh, go ahead.
Brian Bosche:
If you have people in your life three or four people you've met online, which is, I also love to hear that you met on Twitter, just do something like this, take it on. It's a fun thing that the community can rally around.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. I mean, the crazy part is that I hadn't even met Brazilia until after issue one came out. I met her at Ashtyn's wedding. So, and we did everything remotely, there was a lot of phone calls, a lot of emails, group chats, and everyone just working together to make it happen. But yeah, I mean, if you would have told me even five years ago that I would have been a part of basketball at this level or producing a magazine, I would have... Yeah. Would not have believed you. So definitely it speaks to how, if you have a small idea and you think it's kind of crazy, if you have three equally crazy people, you can probably make it happen.
Brian Bosche:
You can do it. Or just one for you, Skylar.
Skylar Smith:
I feel you. Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
You're you're my other crazy person.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. Sometimes [inaudible 00:13:56]. I feel like everyone we bring onto the pod, this is the story though we're like, "How did this come about?" And they're like, "I just started and I didn't really know how it would go. And I just started and it turned into something great. And I just love it now." And it really is such a good lesson. Just do it.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. I think the other big thing is, I don't think it's probably just Portland, but Portland has a unique community at least on basketball Twitter. They're so supportive of one another. It's crazy. Like anybody's venture, whether you're a food cart owner or if you're trailblazing, producing really cool street wear, people are just all for supporting whoever is doing anything in the community. So I think we had some confidence going into it like, "Hey, I think our followers and the people that we're friends with are really going to enjoy this. And it will really help us just boost to that level that we want to kind of start out with." And that's been exactly what it has been. The few flukes that have happened have been like, Shea Serrano got ahold of our magazine and decided to retweet us. And that was the most stressful week of mailing magazines of my life. And then more recently we ended up on The Jump, which was [crosstalk 00:15:14]
Brian Bosche:
I saw that.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
Amazing.
Alex Haigh:
That was incredible. Yeah, that was... I mean, we had joked about getting Rachel Nichols a magazine and then she went to the Bubble and we were like, eh, the dream's gone. It's not going to happen. And then she came back and we were told, "Okay, it's going to be on today's segment." And we were just like...
Brian Bosche:
A long segment.
Alex Haigh:
I mean, even thinking about it now-
Brian Bosche:
It wasn't a throwaway mention. It was a full overview.
Alex Haigh:
Yes, it was. It was incredible. I was watching with my jaw dropped the whole time. Just couldn't believe it was happening. And, I still just can't believe it. But I think that's the sort of thing that you just never realize what's possible until you might start something. And me being a person I would consider pretty indecisive and not exactly quick to start projects because I'm a bit of a perfectionist. If I don't know exactly what I'm going to get out of it, I may not even start it. But it's okay if you're like that, as long as you have other people that maybe believe in you more than you believe in yourself.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
Which is definitely what we have with the team, we definitely are there for each other when we're like, "Oh, I don't know if this is going to work." But we're like, "No, it's going to because it has to, and then something happens." So...
Skylar Smith:
You're fully preaching to the choir here. I would not start my Instagram until I knew it was going to be perfect. And Brian just was pushing me for months. Like you just have to, you just have to start it. So completely understand that.
Alex Haigh:
It's so hard though.
Brian Bosche:
Alex, I made her do one pod every day for 22 straight days to start this podcast.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, wow. So you'd have a bunch in the bank?
Brian Bosche:
No.
Skylar Smith:
No, we released them like that. It was traumatic.
Alex Haigh:
Oh...
Brian Bosche:
Or else there's no pressure, got to get it out today.
Skylar Smith:
That was not why we did that.
Alex Haigh:
Wow. That's a lot.
Skylar Smith:
Let's move on. I feel like we've told like three guests in a row about that. I don't really know why. Anyways, let's move on. The magazine is absolutely beautiful. Can you tell us a little bit about your role as the designer of the magazine?
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. My role as a designer is that everyone else who produces really awesome stuff doesn't give it to me. So I take no credit for the beauty of the magazine, all of those photos and the shoots, those are all my creative directors and their brain children. My job is just to put their amazing work onto the page and have it look as good as possible. So and like I said, I'm brand new. I have not done something like this before. I mean, in my previous jobs I've done graphic design ish stuff, but this is brand new for me. So, I take actually a lot of inspiration from other magazines that we've seen like, "Okay, we like the look of this. This is more of an art magazine." And when we came out with Flagrant, we didn't want it to be a magazine as much as we wanted it to be a, like a coffee table book. I think we've mentioned that in our marketing before.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
We wanted it to be something that you left on your coffee table because it's art in itself. So with that in mind, we designed it less like a classic magazine, and more like an art book, I guess.
Skylar Smith:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brian Bosche:
It definitely has that presence, wherever it is.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
I remember it was, Skylar shipped it here and it was on our coffee table and I was like, "Whoa, this is like something I want to put up on the wall or something I want to feature on it." It's definitely like, it's a hardy magazine. It's not one of the Sports Illustrated for kids throwaways.
Alex Haigh:
Right. Yeah. And putting that together and getting the samples from the company and just to decide how thick we want the paper and everything. There was a lot of care and consideration that went into that. There's a lot of options as far as paperweight and gloss go, that I did not know about before doing this.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
But it all matters and yeah, we've actually got a really great response on just the quality of the items.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
So that's what we're going to stick with is that sort of thick book, almost book type.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. So we kind of mentioned this earlier, one of Flagrant's taglines is digital is still dead. So what is it like actually making a physical magazine in this hyper digital age?
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, I think that was intentional because, we all get sort of fatigued on all of the digital consumption especially for you guys for example, just to have a podcast where you're talking about sports, you have to be on Twitter and Instagram all the time, because that's where you get your news, your information. You have to be able to speak on someone's Instagram post or someone's comment on someone's Instagram post or what have you.
Brian Bosche:
Yes.
Skylar Smith:
Yes.
Alex Haigh:
So it's sort of exhausting in that sense, even though it's fun and that's what our interest is. It gets to be a lot. And I think that creating Flagrant as more of a tangible piece of art was intentional. Just so you could step away from the digital consumption. We toyed with the idea of should we have it be a digital download where you can still view it online and we were like, "No, we really just don't want that. We want it to be something that you can hold in your hand." And I think that as we come out with more issues, it'll be sort of this collection thing where you have issue one, issue two, issue three, kind of stacked up and they're all timeless, hopefully to the best of our ability.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
And it's just something you can feel. And I think that even though digital is dominating marketing and media, there's still room and space for something like a book or something that you can hold in your hand. I just think it's a different experience. So yeah, that's pretty much-
Brian Bosche:
It also separates you. If you're thinking of it as what can we build as an experience? If it's not a physical magazine, The Jump might not talk about it. Shea Serrano might not talk about it.
Alex Haigh:
Right.
Brian Bosche:
It really sets you apart and it's a completely different experience of, you mentioned Shea where he does the PDF downloads of the different things, but having basketball and other things like that book is the artifact. I still, in my parents' house, it's still National Geographics just all through the bookcase in each of those years.
Alex Haigh:
Right.
Brian Bosche:
It's like the evergreen piece of magazine that you'd go back in history and see. And I love that part of it, I love that it's kind of a zag on everyone going full Tik Tok, which we talk a lot about on this podcast as well, where it makes it very special.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. I mean, I think the "Digital is Dead" tagline is also, it's very facetious, right? Because we have to be, we have such a huge digital presence and we're just going to be doing more digital production as well as we go on. But the joke is that "Digital is Dead" because, buy our magazine.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
But that's sort of our whole, that's the conceit of our whole personality on Twitter and everything anyways, is we're just sort of making fun of ourselves. So "Digital is Dead" because we're selling a print magazine, but also long live digital because it has to exist.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, and you're from Portland. So it's, you're stuck in the 90s as it's very well known. It makes perfect sense.
Alex Haigh:
Stuck in the 90s. Yeah. We're going to start releasing tape cassettes of something.
Brian Bosche:
Oh, I would love that.
Alex Haigh:
Wouldn't that be great?
Brian Bosche:
Flagrant vinyls.
Skylar Smith:
Of interviews.
Brian Bosche:
Your podcast is released on vinyls. We need to do that Skylar.
Skylar Smith:
I would be into it.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, man.
Skylar Smith:
It would sell well in Portland and the PNW in general.
Alex Haigh:
It would. Oh, man.
Brian Bosche:
That's a great idea.
Skylar Smith:
So, when you-
Brian Bosche:
We should definitely, we should do High Tea Hoops season one vinyls. That would be incredible. Why haven't we done this yet?
Skylar Smith:
Anyways-
Alex Haigh:
For the promotion, you have to give away a record player with it. So it's actually really expensive it wouldn't make sense.
Skylar Smith:
We're paying $200 for each one.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah.
Skylar Smith:
That we're selling.
Brian Bosche:
It's a giveaway item, who knows. We'll workshop it later.
Skylar Smith:
It's yeah. We're in the brainstorming phase. There you go. So when you guys set out, I talked up top about how this was the first time I felt like it was a sports magazine for me. When you started and you were thinking of a Flagrant reader, who were you thinking of? What was the audience that you've been trying to build?
Alex Haigh:
I think maybe no one person in general, but maybe the people who enjoy basketball but don't fit into the other archetypes of basketball fans.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
There's a big subsection of basketball fans who are also big sneaker people. We know that especially in Portland and around Nike-
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
Sneaker heads are like, if that's what they're still called, I honestly don't know because my point is, I'm not a sneaker person. I don't own sneakers. And I always felt like I don't belong in basketball a little bit because I'm not a fan of sneakers, but there are people that enjoy basketball that just don't fit into these little pockets of anything.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
And I think that's sort of what we were going for is like, "Hey, do you watch basketball, but you don't play? Are you... Do you watch every sport and you love basketball? Are you just an art person and basketball is sort of cool, but you're mostly into art?" There's all these different things that the magazine hits on. And in the community projects, I think people that are really into just the community aspect of the pieces and the people that we cover and provide in the magazine are just something that aren't, that isn't really touched on elsewhere, at least that we've found. So a specific demographic or person, I don't think so. Maybe if we were all business majors, we would have set that out and written a business plan but no, it was not that well-planned.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, what persona are you building for? Have you named them? Do they have a common interest?
Alex Haigh:
Hm, yes. No.
Skylar Smith:
The Flagrant heads?
Brian Bosche:
I'm actually glad to hear that.
Alex Haigh:
Yes, they are Flagrant heads.
Brian Bosche:
I'm glad to hear that you didn't do that because it's so much more authentic now than just like, "Okay, we have these four personas in mind and we have to hit these different points," which has its place but...
Alex Haigh:
No, I think... Yeah, of course. Right. If you're trying to plan ahead and have an idea of where you're going, like what businesses do. I would say yeah, that totally makes sense. I would say that we produce a magazine, we also happen to be a business, would be how I would classify ourselves. So we don't follow that mainly just because, I mean, none of us really have business experience. So this has really been a learning curve, especially with tax season coming up, that's a whole other ball game that we-
Brian Bosche:
Oh, fun times.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, we just don't know how that stuff works. So, but that's trial and error, we'll figure it out.
Skylar Smith:
You can hire people for that.
Alex Haigh:
Exactly. We're not that worried about it.
Brian Bosche:
It's a fun experience.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. And that's, we're trying to not worry about it too much and just keep focusing on producing new magazines and let that stuff fall into place.
Brian Bosche:
When I started my business like seven years ago and we hit our first tax season, I thought taxes were on total revenue and not your profit. So I was like, "Oh, we're totally screwed. How did we not plan for this? Why didn't I know?" You know when you're doing things for the first time you make mistakes, but we don't have to talk about taxes because I hate talking about taxes more than almost anything.
Alex Haigh:
Sorry, I brought that up. I'll put that on myself.
Brian Bosche:
But one of the areas that I really appreciate that you talked about is mental health in sports. And there is a lot of, it's a big effort to de-stigmatize talking about mental health and there's been a lot of great NBA players and WNBL players that have led and started talking about going to therapy and emphasizing it, especially when we had the bubble where so many players suffered just sitting in the same place every single day. So what had you, or what made you focus on that element of basketball and sport?
Alex Haigh:
I think there's already so many people that sort of champion that in Twitter, you said you had Meredith Minkow on your podcast. She's so good about making it accessible and de-stigmatizing it. And that's why we covered her in issue one because of that. I think just this idea that celebrities and sports figures obviously are included in there, are impervious to experiencing things that we all experience or just pretending that it's not there for so long has just hurt people so much. I think the celebrities that come out and talk about it, like Kevin Love being so open about his depression and anxiety is just important. It's important to see that our heroes and the people that are strong, aren't made weaker by their mental health struggles. They're just made more human. And that just is, that makes them more accessible. And it's just, it's real.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
So we're trying not to paint a certain picture of people. It's not really about aesthetics, it's more just about showing what's really going on and in sports, yes there's the sport and there's artists and stuff, but there's just so much else going on. And I think, especially during the pandemic, we touch on it even in issue two as well. It's just, it's not going away.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
So, one article here or there really isn't going to cover it. And I think it's probably going to be a theme in our magazine for issues to come just because it really resonates with people it seems like.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Well, it's appreciated.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
Thank you.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. Hey, that's definitely the creative direction of the entire team. And also just our context, knowing that so many people like Meredith or, we cover Liz Beecroft in issue two [inaudible 00:28:40] sneak peek there.
Brian Bosche:
Nice. Breaking.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, breaking news. You've heard here first. They're big in their community but I just, I think it can only help people. So...
Skylar Smith:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, going literally to the opposite of that, I feel like I really want to talk about the NBA astrology in Flagrant. So quite the opposite of [crosstalk 00:29:08]-
Brian Bosche:
I'm sorry, I really [crosstalk 00:29:08]-
Alex Haigh:
The opposite of mental health.
Brian Bosche:
I soft balled that up for you Skylar, sorry.
Skylar Smith:
Thank you.
Brian Bosche:
In the worst way. Let's go serious for a moment and then go back to NBA astrology.
Skylar Smith:
No, but that's what I love about Flagrant. There is the mental health stuff that is, it's great for people to see and to read and to hear that they're not the only ones struggling, but then there is just some really fun stuff.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Skylar Smith:
Like, "Hey, I found out that Michael Foltz is also a Gemini, which is what I am. So, you're giving the readers what they want.
Brian Bosche:
This is so target market for Skylar. You have no idea.
Skylar Smith:
It really is. I showed him, I got the magazine and I was like, "Brian, they have NBA astrology." That was the first thing I showed him.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. I would say... Oh, go ahead, sorry.
Skylar Smith:
No, you go, I'm going to launch into questions.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, NBA astrology is a target market for a lot of our readers. I would say astrology is just huge right now, either completely like ingest or people are absolutely 100% serious about it. And either way it's entertaining. Right.
Skylar Smith:
I think it's both for a lot of people too. It's definitely both for me. I fully believe it, but then it's also fully a joke.
Alex Haigh:
Oh yeah. If mercury is in retrograde, I'm taking in everything with that veil over it, but also I'll read my horoscope and be like, this is absolute bullshit. Like there's no way.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. Exactly.
Alex Haigh:
But I, that was definitely a Sierra, our social media manager love child, that whole idea. She was like, "I really want to write the horoscopes." And we were like, "You were born to write this, so please go for it." And she knocked it out of the park. And then, I mean, Oh my God, I'll have to grab the name of the person who actually did the art for the horoscopes because she is so incredibly talented. I think her name is Chastity. I'll have to find it. She's incredible. I mean, when I saw those I was just like I don't even care what the words are that go along with them.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
Like, look at these. It was amazing. So...
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. So how did you guys go about finding contributors for the first issues? Were you just, when you decided to form the magazine was it like, "Oh, we know who we would love to feature in this first episode," because it's just like, I know in my head when I'm scrolling through Twitter I'm like, "Oh, I really admire that person. It's like, okay, well, that's the natural first person to put in the episode." Was it like that? How did you guys go about finding contributors, was there a lot of you guys, were there specific voices you were trying to amplify? What was the process?
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. A lot of us, I would say Bethany is the artist of the group and she knows a lot of artists. So she follows them just personally on Instagram and knows them from her social circle. So she was like, "I know a few people who would love to contribute. And I also know who I want to interview for the artist spotlights." And then, Ashtyn was friends with a few people like Meredith Minkow on Twitter. And it was mostly networks, people we already sort of knew, but some of them were big fish. We were like, "Okay, we want Sydney Wiese. How do we get a hold of Sydney from the WNBL?" And made that happen somehow. I think Ashtyn knew her, maybe she was a Beaver.
Alex Haigh:
So it was mostly people that we knew that we wanted to see if they wanted to contribute, but also a lot of sheepish DMs in Instagram like, "We're starting this magazine, it's probably going to suck but do you want to be a part of it? We don't know what it's going to be and it might not even happen. But if it does, would you like to be featured?" That kind of thing. And then I think once we started teasing it, we had a lot of people show interest. Like, "Hey, if you guys need something please reach out to me. I'd love to draw something for you or take photos or yes, you can use my photos." And it's just this outpouring of support because we're not exactly profitable at this point. We're still trying to get everything going. So our money is not there but all of the support and the mutual help has been what has, like I said in the beginning, what has kept this whole thing going, which is just the most incredible thing to me.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
And just a quick point of clarification for our UK listeners, a Beaver is an Oregon State University student [crosstalk 00:33:26].
Alex Haigh:
Oh, my God.
Brian Bosche:
So not literally a beaver, I just want to throw that out there just because-
Skylar Smith:
Thank you so much.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, glossed over that one pretty quick. She's a duck and he's a beaver. It's like, what are you talking about?
Alex Haigh:
What?
Skylar Smith:
I feel like if you're just going to drop a mascot, like Beaver is one of the funnier ones to just drop without any context.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, yeah.
Brian Bosche:
She's a Beaver, moving on without any context. Love that.
Alex Haigh:
That's true. I'm too used to it. I just think that everybody should know what the Oregon State mascot is, that's definitely not true. Sorry, Ashtyn. [inaudible 00:33:55]
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. And then one thing I love about you guys too, is that it seems like you're always sourcing materials. I've seen on your website and on your socials like, "Oh, if you guys want to be featured, just email us here. If you guys want to tell a story, email us here." I love that it's kind of, you're just opening it up. I feel like a lot of the trends we're seeing in sports right now, are these trends towards democratization of media coverage and sports in general and all these things. And so that's just been one of the things that I've really loved to see Flagrant doing.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. I think it's necessary for us to have sort of a wider, casting a wider net and having a voice that stretches beyond just what us four or five know and who we know. One of my favorite pieces in issue two came from a website submission that when I read it I was just like, "This guy wants to put this in our magazine?" I just couldn't believe it. So I'm so excited for people to read that one. But yeah, the submissions and we'll post that on Twitter as well. If you have any ideas or you're going to reach out to us, we've like we said, we create the magazine but it's the community that creates it because we're just grabbing and we're just showing what's already there really. So it's everyone else creating it for us. And we're just putting it on paper. That's how it feels.
Brian Bosche:
Oh, a doggo appears in the podcast. Or a cat?
Alex Haigh:
Oh yeah. She's laying here and just not getting out of the way.
Brian Bosche:
Hello. She's interested in the pod.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah, she likes them. Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
We'll close this one out with, probably one of my worst worded questions because I couldn't figure out how to put this into question format. But I love what you've talked about, how you're making basketball and basketball culture more inclusive and making people feel like, just because I don't love sneakers or just because I don't watch every single game doesn't mean I'm a fan of the culture around the sport. So can you talk a little bit about how just growing the culture around the sport actually helps the sport grow to new audiences and not just people who want to dive into the analytics of every single game?
Alex Haigh:
Oh man. Yeah. I would say, I wouldn't say I was pushed further away from the analytics just being on Blazers Outsiders, because I felt this pressure to have watched every game not only the Blazers, but in the league, to be able to speak on someone's high score and someone's record breaking game or whatever. While that's all interesting, I am least interested in that.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
I'm much more interested in Evan Turner's Instagram story and Damian Lillard's rap career and what someone's doing with street wear. All that stuff to me, the fact that it was born of the professional sport is great, but it carries its own weight at this point. And yeah, I think it's important that we share what the community is doing for basketball for itself. Right? Professional sports is, I mean, let's face it it's in the capitalist machine, right?
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Alex Haigh:
It's doing its own thing as a profitable company and industry, but everything that happens in the community is pure love. So it's passion projects and it's from the heart and it's community-based, it's supportive. And that to me is the most beautiful part of basketball is what it's created outside of itself. And I think it will continue to grow as long as people keep taking the sport and interpreting it how they want and putting their own spin on things, because that's what keeps us growing and learning as a community. And that's what I hope to keep sharing with Flagrant.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah. That's very well said with my poorly set up question. So thank you. I think it's [crosstalk 00:37:48]
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, that was a big question too.
Brian Bosche:
Incredible.
Alex Haigh:
I tried, I really tried. I mean, you guys did give me the prompts ahead of time, so I can't take complete credit.
Brian Bosche:
Ah, don't tell our secrets. Actually-
Alex Haigh:
What? I'm just kidding.
Skylar Smith:
We did plan on talking about taxes. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have lied about that.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah.
Skylar Smith:
There was a tax question included.
Alex Haigh:
There was.
Skylar Smith:
Sometimes we ask a question and I just hear the guest like, okay. They just like, it's like a big gasp before they... and I'm just like, Oof, I just feel for them. And really, really nailed that one.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Alex, I asked a British basketball professional player if I had what it takes to play in the British Basketball League. And he had an excruciatingly long pause before he answered.
Alex Haigh:
Oh really?
Brian Bosche:
Yes, that was brutal.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, that is rough.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, it was.
Skylar Smith:
But then he spoke and he had a British accent. So it was kind of okay.
Brian Bosche:
No. He was American. He's from Seattle.
Alex Haigh:
Oh, brutal.
Brian Bosche:
That I have played with before Darien Nelson-Henry. So he knew, he's played with me and he was like, "You're a glue guy Brian. That's what you are."
Alex Haigh:
Oh, wow. Wait, say his name again. I'll cyber bully him for you.
Skylar Smith:
[crosstalk 00:38:55]
Brian Bosche:
He's not on social. Shoot.
Skylar Smith:
Oh!
Alex Haigh:
Dang it. Okay. All right. Well, never mind.
Brian Bosche:
I mean, he's your target market, right?
Skylar Smith:
Maybe that's why so he can't get cyber bullied.
Alex Haigh:
I don't know Brian. You think I know my target market? I didn't go to Harvard.
Brian Bosche:
He only reads magazines so he might be, but you'll never find out about it because he's not on social.
Alex Haigh:
Well, dang it.
Skylar Smith:
Well, Alex, thank you so much for being on the pod today, chatting with us. Tell the people where they can find you, where they can find Flagrant, when issue two comes out where they can buy it, tell them everything.
Alex Haigh:
Oh man. Okay. Well I'm @owlhix. O W L H I X on all platforms. You can find a Flagrant mag @flagrantmag on Instagram and Twitter, and then flagrantmag.com is where you can order. We might have a couple of copies of issue one leftover, but I'm not sure.
Skylar Smith:
I think you do.
Alex Haigh:
And then issue two is... Yeah.
Skylar Smith:
I can attest to that.
Alex Haigh:
Okay. So we might have a few.
Skylar Smith:
I got [crosstalk 00:39:48]
Brian Bosche:
Do you ship to the UK?
Alex Haigh:
We do.
Brian Bosche:
Perfect.
Alex Haigh:
It's a little bit more confusing because yeah, the No Place Like Home guys, have you guys heard of that magazine?
Brian Bosche:
No.
Alex Haigh:
It's a soccer magazine that's based in the UK and Joseph has been a godsend in helping me with questions about my magazine.
Brian Bosche:
Amazing.
Alex Haigh:
Yeah. It's actually a really cool magazine, you guys should check it out. But yes, we do ship to the UK because I've worked with Joseph and he's helped me out with that.
Brian Bosche:
Nice.
Alex Haigh:
Issue two is just getting shipped and we're going to be shipping it out in the next week. So you can expect that soon and you can also order it online right now.
Brian Bosche:
Great.
Skylar Smith:
Thanks Alex.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Thanks Alex.
Alex Haigh:
Thank you guys so much. I had so much fun.
