Project Swish and The GG3x3 Charity Basketball Tournament with Martin Dyan
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On this episode of Tea Time, Skylar Smith and Brian Bosché are joined by Martin Dyan, Founder of the UK’s largest 3x3 nonprofit community platform and tournament, The GG3x3. They chat with Martin about how he led the #NothingButNetLDN challenge where volunteers put nets on 76 hoops around London as a part of Project Swish from Basketball England, organizing the GG3x3 charity basketball tournaments, growing up in the UK playing basketball, and how basketball is a powerful way to grow community in the UK.
Full Transcript:
Skylar Smith:
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to High Tea Hoops.
Brian Bosche:
High Tea Hoops.
Skylar Smith:
We're back with another great interview today. Here with Brian, as always. Brian, how's it going?
Brian Bosche:
Hello, it's going great. Can't wait for today's interview.
Skylar Smith:
Super excited. Nice. So let's introduce our guest. We have the man, the myth, the legend, Martin Dyan on the show today. Martin, how's it going?
Brian Bosche:
Martin, what's up?
Martin Dyan:
What's up? Thank you very much for inviting me on. I'm excited to chat to you both.
Skylar Smith:
We are so excited to have you.
Brian Bosche:
Absolutely. Requested through Twitter. We're like, "Who should we interview?" And everyone's like, "You got to get Martin on the pod. He's in demand."
Martin Dyan:
I'm honored. I'm honored.
Skylar Smith:
To be fair, I've been saying we need to get you on the pod for a while.
Brian Bosche:
True.
Martin Dyan:
Okay. Well, either way, I'm delighted to chat to you both, because you're both doing ... I'm going to say this on the record ... doing an amazing job on High Tea Hoops.
Brian Bosche:
Thank you.
Skylar Smith:
Thank you.
Brian Bosche:
We appreciate it.
Martin Dyan:
[crosstalk 00:01:00] and the collaboration and stuff has just been brilliant. So yeah, excited to [crosstalk 00:01:05].
Skylar Smith:
Thank you. So I'm sure a bunch of people in the British basketball scene already know you, but for the people who don't, do you want to just start with giving them a little bit of your background?
Martin Dyan:
Sure. Yeah, why not? For some it's quite surprising, because not many people are born in and then still live in London. So yeah, I live in North West London and went to school here. I went to University of Birmingham, so about an hour north of North London, depending on how quick that you're driving there.
Martin Dyan:
I've been working in PR and communications for over 10 years, but over the past, say, 4 to 5 years, I really started getting more involved in basketball. I've always been involved in some respect. I played as a little kid and my friends were like, "What is this game that you're playing?"
Martin Dyan:
It's quite rare, right? And you meet a few other kids in the basketball court, and that's how you get into it. And then I played at my school. I was kind of my school captain, and then played a little bit at university. And then I just more and more increasingly became involved in the game, and in the whole community as well.
Skylar Smith:
Nice. So we're always super interested in what got people into basketball in the first place in the UK, because like you said, it is rare to play the game. So were you watching NBA on TV? Did you have an older brother, an older cousin who was playing? What got you into it?
Martin Dyan:
Okay, so there's probably three predominant things that got me into it. So the first thing is, my brother and I used to play football in the back garden. He used to put me on goal, and he would always kick the ball at me.
Brian Bosche:
Classic.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. He was like, "Everyone needs a goalie." But he'd kick the ball to my face, I think that's what he ...
Brian Bosche:
That's absolutely it. As an older brother, yes, that is the reason.
Martin Dyan:
That's right, yeah. So he would kick the ball at me and I'd be able to catch it, which is all kick good. Kicking it back was a different matter. I couldn't really kick straight. No left foot. But my sister had a netball hoop in the back. So when my brother would go back in, I would then take whatever the ball was, football, netball, basketball, whatever it was, and actually shoot it into the hoop.
Martin Dyan:
And that was one of the things that really got me into playing the game. From there actually, my dad and I actually built hoop and a backboard, put it up at the front together. And that was me doing crazy shots from the front drive, and from the road, and my parents [crosstalk 00:03:39] at me, and breaking windows and stuff.
Martin Dyan:
So that was the first thing. The second thing was, yeah, there was some stuff on TV. So at that point, I think there was a production company, Chrysalis, or something, and they had a Channel 4 program which was an NBA wrap-up program. And that was how a lot of us were consuming NBA content at the time.
Martin Dyan:
And also, trying to order random tapes or whatever it might be from abroad. So watching that as well. And that is really funny, because recently I commented to Beverly Turner, who was the presenter of that show, on Twitter. And I said, "It's great what you're doing, but we really wanted NBA content."
Martin Dyan:
And she came back and she was like, "Those were early days, but thanks very much." And I followed it with, "We want you back," and blah, blah. That was really cool because it was about integral to us understanding and learning the game, which is really cool.
Martin Dyan:
And then the third thing was, I was very lucky, my parents took us to Orlando when we were kids, obviously, Disney. Orlando were a big team.
Brian Bosche:
Is this the Penny era? The Shaq era?
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, it's the Penny, Shaq era, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that was amazing. For an English kid that liked basketball, that kind of knew about it, to then be in Orlando and see everything, Magic this. It was all about the team at that point. And I just loved it. I absolutely loved it.
Martin Dyan:
I came back home, remember asking my parents if I could get a basketball cap, if I could get a Orlando Magic one. I remember, at first, they refused, probably because they just spent so much money taking us over to Orlando. But then they surprised me when we went to market and they bought me an Orlando cap.
Martin Dyan:
So from then, it was like, "I'm Orlando fan. I'm going to try and follow these guys. Get [crosstalk 00:05:31] as possible. And then I want to play." Yeah, and that was when I was young. And then I kind of demanded that they took me to a basketball club, and then I just played from there. It was probably those three things that most [crosstalk 00:05:45].
Brian Bosche:
I think that's our fist netball entry.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, it is.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, which is a good crossover.
Martin Dyan:
Hey, hey, I mean, it was there. My sister didn't play on it too much, but the hoop was there. Why not?
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, so do you-
Brian Bosche:
How old were you when you started?
Martin Dyan:
Oh, when I first started getting into basketball, I was probably about eight-
Brian Bosche:
Okay, that's-
Skylar Smith:
It's pretty early.
Brian Bosche:
... the prime age, yeah. A lot of people are like 17, 16. If everybody started a little bit earlier, the talent that could come out of the UK would be incredible.
Martin Dyan:
Well, when I got into school, we had an American basketball coach called Mr [Caning 00:06:21]. He was an amazing, amazing coach. He made us run like crazy. It was like two months of basketball, but with no basketballs, you know what I mean? It was conditioning to it.
Brian Bosche:
Been there.
Skylar Smith:
We've all had that coach.
Martin Dyan:
Oh, man. I mean, those suicides after summer holidays, you're going to die after that. That's why they call them suicides. Basically, he was a really great coach. What was funny was that he was asked, "Do you want to build a basketball team?" I'm there as one of the only kids that liked the game and enjoyed it.
Martin Dyan:
So we built a relationship straight away because he's like, "Oh my God, there's someone that actually likes this game." So yes, that was great, and a really good way of building on the passion for it, I suppose. And being able to play it properly, like enter school games and stuff. We got killed, but it was still a fun time. So that's really the start of it, I suppose.
Skylar Smith:
Do you still support the Magic today?
Martin Dyan:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
I'm sorry.
Skylar Smith:
I just wanted to check. Yeah, it's a tough one.
Martin Dyan:
How about you both?
Skylar Smith:
I'm a Pistons fan, so I'm with you. It's just tough days out here.
Brian Bosche:
Nuggets. At least you have championships, Skylar.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, it's true.
Brian Bosche:
We haven't even been to the Finals, Martin.
Skylar Smith:
I can remember championships, which is great.
Brian Bosche:
But we have Jokić. We have Jamal. We have a good team, so I'm excited now, but yeah, it's been a rough go of it.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, it's been tough. But hey, I mean, look, last playoffs, you guys did well.
Brian Bosche:
That was electric. Great for High Tea Hoops content to have the Nuggets actually do well in the playoffs.
Martin Dyan:
Oh, I believe it. Yeah, I believe that, for sure.
Brian Bosche:
And then just endless suffering for Skylar on the Pistons side. But moving on to a new topic. We've talked to a lot of different players about hooping in the State, and going and playing D1 or D2 or D3, and wanting to go over to the AAU scene and get into the college basketball scene here in the States. But we haven't heard many people who actually played hoops and uni in the UK. So what was that experience like?
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I wasn't first team or anything, to put it that way.
Brian Bosche:
I don't even know, what does first team even mean? Help people who don't know anything about hoops in the UK unis.
Martin Dyan:
In the relevance of ... Well, I wouldn't even try and compare it to do ... I did one or two [crosstalk 00:08:44] but not that specific. But it was an A and a B team, put it that way, for me. Kind of like NBA and G League. For anyone that's listening to this or listening at any point, it's not comparable to NBA or G League, I'd just like to throw it out.
Brian Bosche:
I think there's an understanding there.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, right, although there are some amazing ... To be fair, we had some amazing games. And when we were watching the first team play, and training with them as well, some of those players were incredible. What's interesting is that you really got to see a different level of what kind of talent there is once you get to that level.
Martin Dyan:
Obviously, when you're on a court or anything like that, we're talking cerebral. I mean, obviously, I love that too. But then when you're playing a structured game at, either high level or high school, school for us, or at university, it is slightly different.
Martin Dyan:
I mean, we weren't traveling too much, we weren't doing a huge amount, but it was an attempted version of an organized game, essentially.
Brian Bosche:
What was the time commitment like? Is it 40 hours a week like in D1? Is it a part-time thing? What is it like actually competing?
Martin Dyan:
I'd love to be able to talk to university sports and actually and actual teams that played, but a Birmingham B team, it wasn't exactly as hardcore as that. We would be training. I wouldn't say it was 40 hours a week, but we trained a few nights a week, and then had our games on the weekend, maximum.
Brian Bosche:
All right. That sounds amazing though. I would-
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, it sounds nice.
Brian Bosche:
To get that again after ... I haven't played in like nine months because of the pandemic. So man, a couple nights a week-
Skylar Smith:
It sounds like a really nice uni experience, whereas you talk to D1 and, I mean, their experiencing amazing things, but they fully have a job as well as having to go to school, which, it doesn't end up sounding that fun, to be honest.
Brian Bosche:
It's not fun. You have to really, really love basketball.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, I believe, if you're going to play at that level, you really need to take it to that level, for sure. I mean, I was very lucky because I managed to go to UCLA for a year.
Brian Bosche:
Oh, nice.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, so I'm kind of a Bruin at heart. I was playing in the John Wooden Recreation Center, and there's three courts adjacent to each other. And you just have games constantly going. And what's amazing-
Brian Bosche:
Oh my God. Martin, you're hurting my feelings right now. The nostalgia's just coming up.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, right. Well, tell me about it. It's an incredible experience, but what was really interesting is, we were playing some classic pick-up games, but on these beautiful courts.
Brian Bosche:
But they're electric. John Wooden pick-up games, are you kidding? Everything's on the line.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, it was amazing. It was really cool. When I was just going, I was playing, there were two things that happened which were really interesting. The first one is that no one could understand my name, because when I say, "Martin," no one really hears it properly.
Martin Dyan:
So a lot of people, when I'm on the court, and people would be like, "Hey, I'm Tom, or "Tim," whatever, "What's your name?"
Brian Bosche:
I love your American accent already.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, that was a great accent.
Martin Dyan:
Thanks. And they say, "Hey." I'm only going to do this a couple time. I don't want to upset any of your American listeners, but-
Brian Bosche:
Fuck them.
Skylar Smith:
We don't have that many
Martin Dyan:
And they're like, "Hey, Martin," they're like, "Hey, man." They're like, "Hey, what's your name?" And then I'm like, "Oh, it's Martin." So they go shake my hand, and then they'd stop before they've shaken my hand, just at that one point, just as they're about to shake it. And they go, "What?"
Martin Dyan:
I'm like, "It's Martin." And they're like, "Melvin?" So the variation that I had on my name include, "Hey, what's your name? I'm Tim." I'm like, "Oh, it's Martin." They go, "Oh, Melvin?" So Melvin. I've had Morton. One of the ones I had was Molten, in which case, I was a, "Yes [crosstalk 00:12:47]."
Skylar Smith:
Yes, Molten.
Martin Dyan:
I love the last one. And then the last one I had was, this guy is like, "Hey, man, what's up? I'm Ryan." And I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm Martin." He's like, "Moses?"
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, it's such a, "Martin." It's such an American pronunciation, man.
Martin Dyan:
All right, so in the end, going to playing pick-up and also going to Jamba Juice and just making up names, and saying, "Oh yeah, my name's Utah." I would just make up states and say, "That's my name."
Brian Bosche:
Well, I love-
Skylar Smith:
That's so funny.
Brian Bosche:
When Skylar went to Kings, just saying, "Skylar" at Starbucks and having anyone try to figure out what Skylar's name is in the UK is a hilarious experience.
Martin Dyan:
Is that so too?
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, I had a very similar experience when I was in the UK because Skylar's a very American name, which I found out. I didn't really know that before. I'd go to Starbucks and I would say my name, and I they would be like, "What?" And they'd start to ...
Skylar Smith:
I have pictures of all my cups, because you'd see them start to try to spell it on the cup. And a lot of times, they'd give up halfway through, or I got Scallion, I got Cinderella, I got Scarlette. They were wild, and so I did the same thing. I started saying different names.
Martin Dyan:
You feel the pain. You feel the pain.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah.
Martin Dyan:
So really, that was my first experience paying pick-up on those courts. But the second thing, which was incredible, was, on occasion, the players for the team would actually come onto the courts, which was amazing. They would just have runs on the courts.
Martin Dyan:
And basically, what would happen is, everyone would just stop playing, because they just want to watch them ball. So that was an amazing experience just to see the quality. I wasn't lucky enough to see NBA players, but I knew that they were on campus. I knew that they were training as well. So the whole atmosphere was incredible. So yeah, amazing times. Very different to [crosstalk 00:14:40].
Brian Bosche:
Very nostalgic.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:14:42].
Skylar Smith:
So let's shift a little bit towards your actual work in basketball. So tell us a little bit about the GG 3 by 3 Tournament.
Martin Dyan:
Close enough. 3x3.
Skylar Smith:
3x3, okay. I was saying 3 by 3 morning and I was like, "It doesn't sound right, but I'm just going to keep saying it.
Martin Dyan:
It isn't really a measurement, I know.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. Tell us how it got started. You also put on clinics, right? Tell us everything.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So four years ago, a friend of mine, George, passed away. The [inaudible 00:15:18] day. Passed away from cancer, and we were teammates. We met when were 12 years old in a basketball court.
Brian Bosche:
Oh, man.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. In 2016 ... He was a young guy. He was really just getting to a really good place in career, and life, and stuff.
Brian Bosche:
That's so sad.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, and he was married for a year as well. Yeah, it was a pretty horrific July. Basically, what happened was, we had this absolute mutual appreciation and love for the game. The NBA All-Star Game, when people would play, and obviously over here in the UK, it's a ridiculous time. And it's just stupid.
Martin Dyan:
Well, he had a projector, and we would play 2K, and we would just play all night on the projector until the All-Star game, and we'd just watch all night. And we would just talk about how good or bad the players were, and comps and stuff, compete when we were young about SLAM basketball collections, and all that stuff, which I actually just recently found.
Martin Dyan:
My parents asked me to remove a whole bunch of stuff from my room, because they [crosstalk 00:16:25] converting it to a gym or something. I basically found all this stuff, like all these old SLAM magazines and stuff like that. [crosstalk 00:16:34]. Look, Brian, I'm all about the nostalgia too, right?
Brian Bosche:
Oh, yeah. The SKYBOX, the SLAM, the '90 basketball NBA. Love it.
Martin Dyan:
Just everything. All that stuff is incredible, and the covers are incredible. So anyway, unfortunately that happens, and I'm like, "I don't know what to do." I felt a little bit of a void because he was really my one true basketball buddy, if you like.
Martin Dyan:
You always have maybe that individual, that one or two or three people that you really talk about the game. And statistically, he was incredible. He just knew everything. So an amazing mind, and I loved the game, and we used to play for years every Tuesday night at JFS in North West London.
Martin Dyan:
And I just thought to myself, "I've got to do something. I've got to run something in his memory, whatever it is." And I did a bunch of research and I spoke to a whole bunch of people once I had this idea, which included people like [Samni Torahoosvics 00:17:37]. Had a chat with him.
Martin Dyan:
Had a chat with [Julius Sipolout 00:17:42]. I had a chat with ... He was great. I had a chat with just a whole load of people just to say, "I want to do this properly. I don't want to just botch it together." And then one guy who was running something, he ran something in the States, but was now living over here.
Martin Dyan:
Was running something relatively similar in memory of friends, and so we had a really in-depth chat about what's the best way to do it. And really, it just came down to, "Just put it on and make sure the tournament's really fun and energetic, and [crosstalk 00:18:16]."
Martin Dyan:
Players just want to play. And maybe a bit of music. Maybe a bit of food. So in the first year, we put together what was then called the GG3v3. It's the George Goldstone ... That was his name ... the George Goldstone Charity Basketball Tournament, or the GG3x3, essentially.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, I had my friend, Paul, who runs function band. He was the DJ. For a charity event, I said to him, "Hey, we need a good hip hop playlist, right? We need a good playlist for this thing. He's like, "I got it. I got it." The moment that N.W.A. comes on, "You need cut that stuff right now." A charity family event.
Martin Dyan:
So anyway, that was really funny. A few lessons learned with that. But, yeah, we had between 10 and 12 teams. I had some banners created. Everyone was really supportive. We had a bit of food and stuff. The primary goal of that was always, do it in George's name. Do it in his honor. Have something that's really fun.
Martin Dyan:
We had amazing prizes to give away to raise money as well. And we just raised money and put on this tournament. It just went so well that afterwards, even though I was exhausted, loads of people were like, "When are you doing it again?" And at that point, I was thinking to myself, "Yeah, okay. Well, I knew I wanted to anyways, but now I've had the vindication from players that really enjoyed it.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, proof of concept.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, exactly. So second year, we held it at the same place. Very short story about that, but on the Sunday was when we mean to run it, and on the Friday night I get a call, and they said that the people that are putting in a new flooring have drilled into pipes into the court, and that my court is flooded.
Brian Bosche:
Water polo.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
Switch over.
Martin Dyan:
Seriously. I mean, I know you guys are really involved in the basketball scene, but you know when then just don't necessarily go your way, whether or not a basketball scene or a career. And I'm just sitting on a Friday evening. I get this call in.
Martin Dyan:
And I was going around to my parents' to have dinner, and I remember the phone calling and the woman saying, "Hey, Martin." I'm like, "Hey, what's up? Can't wait to see you on Sunday. Everything's ready, volunteers, banners, teams are ready to go."
Martin Dyan:
And she's like, "I'm really sorry, but you don't have a basketball court." And I was like ... So on the Saturday, I went to Costco. I bought four basketball hoops, and a whole load of volunteers came Sunday morning at 7:00 AM, and we built the courts outside.
Brian Bosche:
Wow.
Skylar Smith:
That's amazing.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, we got tape. We taped it out. We got measuring like things. We had a group of people building the hoops. I had people like Dean, Ginger Shaq, right? I showed some of those guys with my dad building that. And then I had ... I mean, it was pretty crazy.
Martin Dyan:
And whilst their building the court, we're then running our very first kid's clinic at the same time on a separate court. And I'm running between two on the hottest day of the year. It was mad, but also incredible.
Brian Bosche:
That's magical. That would be incredible. Just true community effort bringing everything together.
Martin Dyan:
It really was. It really was. I've always said that the GG3x3 and what the whole entity represents, there's three things, right? We raise money for cancer charities and just charities that really need it in George's honor, grow the game and grow grassroots basketball.
Martin Dyan:
And then the third thing is, unite communities. And what better way than a crazy challenge [crosstalk 00:22:15]. And then after that, it grew and we had two levels with men's. And in the third year, we held it at University of East London.
Martin Dyan:
So changed the venue, made it much, much bigger, had some sponsors. Flew in Jordan Southerland from Atlanta [crosstalk 00:22:30], and he competed against Joel Henry and [Lion Levy 00:22:34] from France.
Brian Bosche:
What is he? The Royal Guard or something? On the Royal Guard. Man, his videos are incredible.
Martin Dyan:
He is awesome.
Brian Bosche:
He jumps over people, Skylar-
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, I've seen him.
Brian Bosche:
... and grabs the ball off the top of their head. Unbelievable.
Skylar Smith:
It's insane.
Martin Dyan:
Just phenomenal athleticism, and he works super hard. And we'd always been chatting. Always been chatting. And the guys over at Dunk Elite had been amazingly supportive ever since day one. We were like, "Can we make this happen with Joel?" And he came over and I'm proud to say ...
Martin Dyan:
I think [inaudible 00:23:15] would say "That was probably the best UK dunk contest we're had in a long, long time," for sure. For sure.
Brian Bosche:
Love it.
Skylar Smith:
That's amazing to hear.
Brian Bosche:
I mean, your love of the All-Star Games transferring over. You love to have that energy.
Martin Dyan:
Well, the reality is, you want to create something that you want to see, right? [crosstalk 00:23:32].
Brian Bosche:
The people going.
Martin Dyan:
Get the people going, man. Right, that's it. That's it. We had food stores outside. We had a women's tournament, men's elite, men's challenge, raffles, prizes. Pro:Direct got involved and Nike got involved. The NBA Store got involved. We had Always Ballin' that provided jerseys for the dunkers.
Martin Dyan:
It was a real massive effort, but it really grew a level. We really raised the level for this event. But the reality is, it's always been about the community too. So that's why I was so keen to do the clinics as well, host some things, do stuff in the community as well. That's really what it's about.
Brian Bosche:
And you just did one at The Regal, right?
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, we did one in Oxford just before the second lockdown. I had two coaches, Jo and Afiz. Way 2 Work and JumpForHealth, they came along. Did it at The Regal. Yeah, it was just an amazing day. We were very lucky. We were lucky because they just provided free basketballs for every kid. So we handed them out, they signed their ball, they trained with it, and then they get to take it home.
Brian Bosche:
There's nothing kids love more than free balls. It's true.
Skylar Smith:
It's true. It's true.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, it's an amazing experience just to see them grab this really cool free basketball. Yeah, it was a really, really good experience to be able to do that.
Skylar Smith:
That's amazing.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah.
Skylar Smith:
That's amazing, and that you just this idea, and then just built it yourself. It's amazing. It's an incredible story.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, I mean, that's how I feel generally about stuff in life, but also about the game, and basketball [crosstalk 00:25:31]. In particular, I should say that Jason Henley at Regal was just incredible.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, Jason's great.
Martin Dyan:
His view about community is just-
Brian Bosche:
So open. He's one of the first people we spoke to when we started High Tea Hoops.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. Yeah. Jason is an absolutely fantastic human being in general, but it just so happens that he's also an human being that loves the game. So we've built up a really nice friendship, and that's also how it happened. But in answer to your question, the way I see it is, you can't just expect things to happen.
Brian Bosche:
Try to build it. What are doing this year? Hopefully, vaccines come out late summer, maybe.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. Well, I mean, if ... Hopefully, there are a bunch of opportunities. One thing I can't mention just yet-
Brian Bosche:
Okay, that's fine. Don't reveal any secret information on this podcast. We don't want to be liable for anything.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate that. No, one thing hopefully, which will be a big collaboration, which will be really cool. And that'll be revolving around the clinics and the idea of coaching kids.
Brian Bosche:
Oh, amazing.
Martin Dyan:
As long as the COVID restrictions allow. The tournament itself, yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, if the restrictions allow, then women's tournament, we'll have two level for men, challenge and elite, and we'll have a wheelchair tournament too.
Brian Bosche:
Amazing.
Skylar Smith:
Oh, cool.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, every year, I want to raise the game. So every time, there's else that we've done that either encourages more people to play, brings more people together, or really, just gives all us an opportunity to play, right? That's really what it's about. People are just desperate to play, so [crosstalk 00:27:17].
Brian Bosche:
Martin, can you help me convince Skylar to join one of these teams and play in the tournament? I've been trying to get her back into playing for years now. Years, Skylar.
Martin Dyan:
Why haven't you played?
Skylar Smith:
Honestly ... This is a very honest answer, which I did not think I would say on this podcast. I'm just not willing to put in the work to get back in playing shape. I'm just not. I'll get into shape, but playing shape is just a whole other beast.
Brian Bosche:
It's a different game.
Skylar Smith:
But I don't think I'm willing to do it, honestly.
Brian Bosche:
We'll get you back into it, Skylar. It'll be a slow process.
Skylar Smith:
I haven't played in like 10 years, and so I just know how much work I would have to put in.
Brian Bosche:
You played on our TikToks. Your shot is still there.
Skylar Smith:
Brian.
Brian Bosche:
You just got to get those hip flexors open back up.
Skylar Smith:
I mean, to be fair, the TikToks are only seeing the good shots.
Brian Bosche:
No, they're not. You make every shot. What are you talking about?
Skylar Smith:
I make every shot. Yeah, that's true.
Martin Dyan:
What I will say is this, is that it's really fun, it's for a great cause-
Brian Bosche:
It's for the kids, Skylar.
Martin Dyan:
Hey, look, it's for the kids. It's for the whole community.
Brian Bosche:
It's for the kids.
Martin Dyan:
It's not just about you enjoying the game. Do it for everyone else.
Skylar Smith:
It's not just about me. That's what I need to tell myself, actually.
Brian Bosche:
Look at the kid in the eye and say, "I'm not playing. I'm not supporting you. I want you to try to do it-"
Skylar Smith:
I'm too lazy. I will not support you. All right, I think this podcast might be what convinces me.
Brian Bosche:
Yes, do it. Do you want to dive into any of the clinic stuff, Skylar, or do you want to move topics?
Skylar Smith:
Let's move on to Project Swish-
Brian Bosche:
All right, go for it.
Skylar Smith:
... because I've been dying to get into it. So how about we just with you telling us, what is Project Swish, and how did you get involved?
Martin Dyan:
Project Swish is Basketball England's grassroots campaign, or initiative, I suppose I should call it. From my understanding, I mean, they can tell you in their one word, probably one sentence, a bit more eloquently than me. From the way that I see it is that, Project Swish is an initiative that really helps to promote grassroots basketball, whether that is through regenerating courts, which is one of their big missions, through to the actual Project Swish campaign, which is when they were providing people with nets to put up on their home courts.
Martin Dyan:
That's how I see ... That's how they describe it. Yeah. In terms of my own involvement, I've seen them before and I saw them on Instagram, and some of the stuff they were doing. I love grassroots basketball. I love community stuff. That's my bread-and-butter stuff.
Martin Dyan:
So I saw that. Me and my buddy, Scott, went to a hoop and put up a net in my local court, which happens to be on Iverson Road, and I was like, "This is [crosstalk 00:30:07]."
Brian Bosche:
"This is fate."
Martin Dyan:
I have to put a net [crosstalk 00:30:09]." And then I contacted Basketball England and I was like, "Look, I don't just want to do this in my hood. I want to do this all over London." And I don't know if at first, they thought I was being serious, because that is a project and a half.
Martin Dyan:
So I just presented the idea, and I said, "Look, this is how I would see it working." And we talked about it loads, and we talked about how it worked. And I said, "Look, I'm going to put this video out there, and we're just going to request for people to recommend courts for us to go to all over London."
Martin Dyan:
And they're like, "All right, go for it. Good luck." God, we had about 83 courts that were recommended across London to put up nets. And then my job was to essentially sort through them and go, "Okay, well, how do we do this?" Originally, the idea was to just do it in 24 hours.
Martin Dyan:
So we were calling it The Nothing But Net 24-Hour Challenge. But then I realized that parks shut, and I didn't really fancy getting a whole team to climb over a fence, legally/illegally, to get into a court. So instead, it ended up being, "Let's do a day where we do north. Let's do a day where we do south, and then east and west." Yeah, and we did a whole load.
Brian Bosche:
How many courts? It seemed endless.
Skylar Smith:
It did seem endless.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, it went on for quite ... Well, what people don't realize is that, we had Instagram requests, either on the Project Swish or GG3x3 Instagram page, or people who were just like, "Hey, can you just come do this?" What you don't realize is that, going to a court, seeing whether they have the loops on or not, seeing how much tape you're going to need, how many cable ties you're going to need.
Martin Dyan:
If it doesn't have hoops, you got to both. And we were making them super secure. So we were taping them first, then we were cable tying, and then we were taping, no matter what the weather was, no matter how hard it was to do it. So we were saying, a minimum time spending on one hoop is about 15 to 20 minutes.
Martin Dyan:
So people who were like, "Hey, can you just come do this?" It was like, "Well, no, [crosstalk 00:32:23]."
Brian Bosche:
It takes time.
Martin Dyan:
We've got to structure this. We've got to work out how we're going to do it. So each time we went out across London, I would try and pull together a group of people. Hopefully, one of them has a vehicle, maybe not, and then say, "Look, we're going to spend all day."
Martin Dyan:
So I would prepare the routes the night before, have a general idea. We'd put together what that route's going to be on a route finder. And then over a period of about 3 months, 14 volunteers over different times came with me, and we'd just spend the entire day.
Martin Dyan:
So in the morning, I'd wake up. I'd get all my supplies. And what was amazing was that, after first one, a relation of George messaged me, and said, "I want to help fund the rest of it."
Brian Bosche:
Oh, that's amazing.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. So Basketball England were providing the nets and equipment, and promoting it on social and stuff. It was an amazing collaboration with Basketball England. Those guys were amazing at Project Swish. Then I got this message, and he's like, "What's your PayPal?" And I was like, "What?" And he goes-
Skylar Smith:
"Excuse me, what?"
Martin Dyan:
I was like, "What?" And then he goes, "What's your PayPal?" And I tell him, "I don't understand." He's like, "I love it. Let me send you some money." And that allowed us to [inaudible 00:33:38] cars. It allowed us to pay for everyone's lunch. It allowed me to re-take care of the all the volunteers [crosstalk 00:33:44].
Martin Dyan:
Some people were coming from Portsmouth to come and help. People were coming from all over, not just from London, to come and help do this, because it has this incredible feeling. When you put up a net, honestly, it's incredible. You put up a net on a hoop, first of all, that's amazing in itself, right? To finally do that kind of thing.
Martin Dyan:
Then when you shoot the first shot in the hoop, okay, that's an incredible feeling. But when you're walking away or you're doing another hoop, and you see a bunch of kids or you see great people playing on that hoop, that's a whole different feeling entirely.
Martin Dyan:
It was really fun, really hard at times. We were doing it in pouring rain sometimes and baking heat in others. But the feedback and vibe that we got from it was just incredible. Someone said to me on a court in Hackney Downs in East London, he said, "Hey, why are you filming this? Are you getting paid for this?" And I said, "No."
Martin Dyan:
I said, "No, man, we're not getting paid. We're not getting paid." He's like, "Yeah, but why are you doing this?" I didn't even answer, but one of the volunteers turned around and she said, "We love the game. We want to help community." And I'm like, "That's what's it's about. [crosstalk 00:34:58]." That's the message.
Brian Bosche:
Well, it's so interesting, us, Skylar and I are getting into UK hoops more, and I've spent the last couple years going to London a lot. And it's hard to find pick-up games. It's hard to find good courts. They don't have, often, nets. As you see on social media, people constantly complain that we don't have access to hoops with nets.
Brian Bosche:
Or if they see a hoop with a net, they're like, "Wow, where'd you find a hoop with a net in the UK?" It's a unicorn. So what do you think the impact ... You talked about the kids playing. What is the difference between ... because it seems like such a small thing maybe, if you're not in the basketball community, or in basketball, of just having a net on a rim.
Brian Bosche:
But what do you think that shows to people, and to kids who trying to play more hoops in the UK?
Martin Dyan:
Well, the way that I saw it was, there's several benefits of doing what we were doing. So for me, it was about inspiring other people to put up nets too. I mean, I instantly got messaged by people in Oxford that want to do it across Oxford, and another person that was across Cambridge, up to NFA uni students. But they were kind of desperate.
Martin Dyan:
But that was about inspiring people to take care of their own home courts, and not just rely on councils. This always goes back to the same ethos of, you just got to go and do it yourself, right? So for one, I just wanted to inspire people to get them motivated to go and do it.
Martin Dyan:
It's not hard. Get a ladder. Get your friends to come and help you up. Get some tape. Basketball England was providing all that stuff for you. You just got to go and put the time in, right? So that was the first thing, just inspiring and motivating people.
Martin Dyan:
In terms of actually having nets on hoops, someone said to me, "Why does it make a difference?" Well, obviously, first of all, the sound of a swish is like nothing else, right? In not saying my strokes are like that, but on occasion when I shoot a nice shot.
Brian Bosche:
Skylar knows. She's a shooter.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, see, Skylar, I've got to see this at the tournament. That's what I'm saying.
Skylar Smith:
All my shots go in, okay? I've never missed a shot.
Brian Bosche:
No one's ever seen Skylar miss a shot.
Martin Dyan:
I love it. I love it. Always 100 for 100.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, there's nothing like that sound when you hit the rim, when there's not a net on it too. Just that did. It's just like, "Ooh," not that I would know, because I never missed a shot.
Brian Bosche:
Or it goes in and there's no positive feedback loop. You're like, "All right."
Skylar Smith:
You're like, "That was ugly."
Brian Bosche:
People are you like, "Did that miss?" And you're like, "No, that went in."
Martin Dyan:
For sure. For sure. So there's that second element, which is all about helping players play, right? And enjoying the game. Enjoy the actual game itself. There's something different about having a net. The third thing I was going to say was about seeing the net on the court.
Martin Dyan:
And this is different for both players and people that don't play. And this could be families on a basketball court. It could be anyone. But if you walk past a basketball court and they have some brand new fresher nets on a hoop, the general aesthetic of the court and the whole park changes.
Martin Dyan:
I don't think it's too much to say that. I don't think it's too extreme to say that. But if you see nets on hoop, compared to a basketball court with no nets, it looks like it's being taken care of. It looks like somewhere I want to play.
Brian Bosche:
It looks like people care. It's like, "Oh, basketball is a thing." I think that's one of the biggest things is, basketball is for real. It is here. People play it. People care about it enough to take care of it enough to take care of these courts. And it's not this tertiary or sport we don't even think about in the UK. It's actually being supported.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So I think it just needs more people to take care of their courts, which is, again, something that I'm going to try and be pushing this year, which is a bit of cerebral home court love, essentially.
Brian Bosche:
What breaks my heart though, Martin, is these pyramids of disappointment that are now on all of these rims, or they take the rims off.
Skylar Smith:
You're so disappointed.
Brian Bosche:
Just these wooden pyramids of disappointment. And you went on ... Was it the BBC that you went on?
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, I went on BBC. Yeah.
Brian Bosche:
Talk about that appearance where you're saying of the importance of actually leaving these things up.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. Well, I mean, basically what happened was, some of the hoops ... People were ... I mean, the social media was going crazy, right? So the whole basketball community was sharing it, going, "This is absolutely mental." Eventually, someone sent me some images of hoops we put nets on that had been removed ... with hoops being removed [crosstalk 00:39:17].
Martin Dyan:
And I was like, "All right, that's the last straw." I was like, "I'm not having that," basically. So fortunately, because of my day job, I know how to contact certain people in newspapers and broadcasting. I didn't know if it was going to go anywhere. I honestly didn't.
Martin Dyan:
But basically, the title of my email to them was, save our hoops. They just loved the community element of it. They were going to do it as part of a wider, what sports aren't going to ... what sports are not happening at the moment. What can you play, what can't you play.
Martin Dyan:
But eventually, once we started talking over the two-week period, and I started sending them photos and images, and I told them about the back story of Project Swish, and the Nothing But Net London Challenge. They were like, "We're just going to do it on basketball."
Brian Bosche:
Amazing. Let's go. Because you had just put them all up, and then they took them all down, or not all of them. But if you take them down after that whole initiative, it's such a heartbreaker.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, exactly. So I said to them, "Look, I would love to be able to talk about it." I said, "Look, it doesn't need to be me. It could be anyone else in the community, but we're all feeling the same way. Would you be interested in running a story?"
Martin Dyan:
As usual, well, sometimes as usual, it was like, "Yeah, maybe." And then a few days later, it was like, "What are you doing tomorrow morning on a basketball court?" And I'm like, "Okay, I better grab all my stuff."
Skylar Smith:
"Oh, let me plan something."
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, let me think about what I'm going to say.I would like to say it was an amazing experience. It was a great experience because I felt like we were really having our voices heart. I'm not the only ... I'm one basketball fan, essentially, that wants to make it grow in the UK, and really believes in everyone just getting the opportunity to play.
Martin Dyan:
At that point in time, that's what worked. Unfortunately, with the pandemic and the seriousness of it, again, courts have been shut down. You called them the periods of dismay, is that right?
Brian Bosche:
The pyramids, yeah. Oh, I like that better. Yeah, pyramids of dismay.
Martin Dyan:
Actually, the pyramids of dismay or the pyramids of doom. I feel like it's either going to be a like a Harry Potter or Indiana Jones. But yeah, it just really hurt to see that stuff. It really hurt [inaudible 00:41:45]. Someone said to me the other day, "Hey, look ... "
Martin Dyan:
They sent me a photo of a court in North West London with a pyramid on it. They came in there joking, they're like, "Man, this is ... They were like, "Hey, look, this is really bad." And what's funny is, I kind of want to laugh at the same time because it's ridiculous.
Martin Dyan:
But at the same time, I'm genuinely sad about seeing it, and whether or not it is the right thing to do to stop people from playing, it still hurts. It still really-
Brian Bosche:
It hurts. What are they going to put spikes on a football pitch? No. People are going to go do what they ... And playing alone or just shooting with a friend. It's not just a five-on-five contact. There's so many ways to participate. It's really sad.
Martin Dyan:
For sure. So for individuals that are really desperate to train, I mean, the amount of people that I've had message me, that are like, "Hey, do you know any open courts?" Because they've seen that I've done across London, a lot of people, and kids, they message me, DM me on Twitter or Instagram, and they're just like, "Hey, look, do you know of any courts that are open?"
Brian Bosche:
"Where can I got play?" Yeah.
Martin Dyan:
"Where can I go and play?" And that breaks my heart because that is what I'm trying to do generally. I'm trying to get people to play and be at it. So hopefully, come April, May, when things start opening up again, people will really get an opportunity to play. Maybe we'll do it again. Maybe we'll do the net thing again. But either way, I've not got an incredible list of courts around London. [crosstalk 00:43:08].
Brian Bosche:
Yes, perfect.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, you're the court king now.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, it's almost like, "Yeah, I trained in this place." I'm like, "Yeah, that right on the left [crosstalk 00:43:13]."
Skylar Smith:
You're like, "Yeah, I put that hoop up. You're welcome."
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, yeah. I'm like, "Hey, look, those are my stickers. That's me."
Skylar Smith:
So let's finish up on last question. You mentioned your day job. You're in PR. So what advice would you give to British basketball players and teams as they try to build their brands? Where should they focus? How can they grow? Give us your professional opinion.
Martin Dyan:
Oh, wow. Okay. This is interesting.
Brian Bosche:
Putting you on the spot here.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, this is interesting. I mean, to be honest with you, this is something that I'm trying to do myself, so-
Skylar Smith:
I think we all are.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah. Well, exactly, yeah. I mean, this is about trying to grow, but these are various different elements or steps that I think really make a difference. So for me, growing the game generally, and not just from a BBL perspective, but just everyone that wants this game to grow in the UK.
Martin Dyan:
The first thing I would say is, is grassroots basketball must be higher on the list. I don't just mean schools. I don't just mean that. I mean, literally courts, like outside courts. It's about showcasing people on those courts and players on those courts.
Martin Dyan:
Actually, maybe if it was for BBL athletes to go down to those courts, to run free sessions. It's about local community. But in that respect, also in the grassroots element, it's also about collaboration. Collaboration is absolutely essential as far as I see it.
Martin Dyan:
Every time I try and run a new clinic, I always try and bring in new coaches. So during the pandemic, I ran something called ISOFIT, right? I was originally going to call it COFIT-19, but I realized that was a bit much. But we called it ISOFIT.
Martin Dyan:
So I had 14 skills and strength and conditioning coaches come online and literally coach me life. And then they each individually filmed their own thing. They filmed their own thing, and then we posted it up. It wasn't just about, "Show us what's good."
Martin Dyan:
It was actually, "Can I help you get to a new audience? Can I help showcase the quality?" Because my belief is, whether or not you believe this or not, but there are some incredible coaches and incredible people in the basketball community in the UK.
Martin Dyan:
And one of the ways to grow the awareness of that is for them to collaborate. Certain basketball clubs, or teams, or academics, and this is just from what I hear, are quite siloed in their approach. And I think the collaboration is massive.
Martin Dyan:
Look, I mean, that's sometimes how I advise clients. Think about collaboration with, "Oh, you're doing this report? Have you thought about bringing in a professor as a third-party expert? If you're doing this report, have you thought about collaborating with a local school or a university to try and engage them? What about another business from a commercial aspect? How would that help?"
Martin Dyan:
So I do think you don't just have to do it yourself. Bring in other people. Bring in other experts, like you guys for example, from [crosstalk 00:46:29] from podcasts, from a social media perspective, from a marketing perspective, just bring people in.
Martin Dyan:
Also, ask the question. This is actually something that I get asked a lot by people that want to run events. So I've helped a few people run their own events around the UK. We have calls and stuff, and I just give them some indication. And they're like, "Oh, but I don't know whether I should message that person."
Martin Dyan:
I'm like, "How do you know if you don't ask? How do you know if you're not reaching those people?" So again, it's about thinking, "Okay, well, who's ... " It's not just about, "Who's going to benefit me," but, "How do we all benefit?" And what can the BBL teams bring to that person they want to help do that as well? We've seen that a lot.
Martin Dyan:
And then from an awareness perspective, it's doing what you guys are doing, right? It's really pushing it out. It's creating loads of content and really being out there. I mean, I need to practice more of doing that myself. I've just been busy creating other things, but it's creating lots of different content and just giving it a go as well.
Martin Dyan:
My view is that some people, or clubs, or whoever it might be, are quite set in how they want to do stuff. And I think now is the time to just have a go. Give it a go-
Brian Bosche:
Experiment. Push the boundaries. Get the new audiences. Go to the new channels. Yeah, absolutely.
Martin Dyan:
Get a crazy videographer that does really random different shots of your players. Get your players involved individually, I think, is really big. I think from the BBL perspective or, honestly, at any level. The more you can get the engagement from what we call our stakeholders, right?
Martin Dyan:
Our core stakeholders. Well, you've got your internal stakeholders, so these are your players, and then your external public as well. How are you going to get them to engage? Right now, everyone needs a feel-good factor. So the more fun, the more exciting.
Martin Dyan:
I'm always doing ... Well, I like to try and think more and more am starting to do more films and footage of random stuff, right? So for example, it was snowing, and I took my drone out and I just filmed the court. It just looks cool. It's just cool. I like it. I think it's fun. Do I know if people will respond or like? I don't know-
Brian Bosche:
You're looking at the target audience though, so there are definitely people out there.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, right, right, right.
Brian Bosche:
If there's a hoop in your shot, I'm going to like it.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, right, right, right. But for me, it's just about really just doing what's enjoyable and what's going to work, and seeing what works. If you keep on doing the same thing, nothing's going to work, actually just do it. Just go and do it.
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, try things.
Martin Dyan:
I think a lot of people, they have ... Look, they obviously have people that they need to answer to sometimes, depending on the level of the club, whatever it might be. Even at school level, PE teachers need to. I think just giving it a go and speaking to people that may have done it before or know about it, and then just doing it. Now is the best time. Why not?
Skylar Smith:
Yeah, it's the absolute best time to be trying new things. I think a lot of people are. Yeah, that's great advice. Martin, thank you so much for coming on the pod. This has been a pleasure.
Martin Dyan:
Yeah, it's been great. Well, thank you so much for inviting me on. My cheeks are now ... Suddenly, I'm really red because I realized I put the heating on really high.
Brian Bosche:
No worries.
Skylar Smith:
It's okay. Audio medium. Where can people-
Brian Bosche:
Can't wait to hoop this summer a bit.
Skylar Smith:
Yeah. Where can the people find you?
Martin Dyan:
On Twitter, I'm just @MartinDyan. That's just me. On Instagram, it's @thegg3x3. And those are the two best ways. We're on Facebook as well, but most of the time, just all over there. If people want to talk about grassroots projects or they want to run their own tournaments, in particular, one of the big things I'm going to be pushing is 3 on 3 basketball this year 3x3. That's going to be massive over here. It can be a whole other podcast. That's going to be my biggest new-
Brian Bosche:
Let's do it.
Martin Dyan:
You're going to be seeing me do a lot, a lot of stuff in 3x3 basketball over the next year. So I'm super excited about that. Thank you very much. It's been [crosstalk 00:50:48].
Brian Bosche:
Yeah, thanks, man.
Skylar Smith:
Thanks, Martin.
