Ashley Hamilton from the Plymouth Raiders and GB Basketball

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Skylar Smith and Brian Bosche are joined by Plymouth Raider and Team GB Player Ashley Hamilton. They chat with Ashley about growing up playing basketball in the UK, playing high school basketball in the States, the Plymouth Raiders' recent hot streak in the BBL, and GB Basketball qualifying for EuroBasket after clutch wins against Germany and France.

Follow Ashley on Twitter and Instagram.

Full Transcript:

Brian Bosche:
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to High Tea Hoops. This is Brian Bosche @thedukeofhoops, and I am joined by Skylar Smith. What's up, Skylar?

Skylar Smith:
Hello. So excited to be back. It's been a while since we've had a player. I'm excited.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Today, we have very special guest Ashley Hamilton, who is currently on the BBL team, the Plymouth Raiders. So, Paul Nicholson, friend of the pod, created the intro. Love that for Paul. And then, also on Team GB. Ashley, welcome to the podcast.

Ashley Hamilton:
Thanks for having me.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Definitely. So, let's just kick this off. We do more all-around type perspectives of players. So, you just came off an incredible campaign for GP, qualifying for EuroBasket, but we're going to start a little bit earlier.

Brian Bosche:
Tell us, as Americans, what was it like growing up in the UK playing basketball? How did you get into the sport? When did you first start playing? Skylar and I were playing when we were four years old, and we get people telling us, "Oh. I was 15," and they're still pros. So, I would love to hear about how you got introduced to the game in the UK.

Ashley Hamilton:
I was 15, maybe turned 16, around that age.

Brian Bosche:
Seriously?

Skylar Smith:
That's crazy.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
No way.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
That is crazy.

Ashley Hamilton:
One of my biggest regrets is maybe not finding the game when I was younger, being in an environment that would've allowed me to find the game when I was younger. But, then again, everything is all part of the journey and part of the story.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. I've told the story a few times. I actually found basketball by mistake. I had a detention in school one day, and I was hiding from the teacher in the gym. I figured that was a good place to get away from everything. There was a local team that was holding a clinic because, in the UK, we're still very much at a stage where local basketball organizations are trying to introduce the game in neighborhoods to kids, whatever, to hopefully find some talent or some new ... build new fans or whatever, build the fan base. That's basically what happened. I happened to stumble across one of the sessions, and the coach saw me on the side, and he was like, "Come here. Come get involved." Yeah. I loved it. I loved it.

Brian Bosche:
When did you hit your growth spurt? Did just a 6'7" guy walk into a gym at 15, and they're like, "You need to start playing basketball"?

Ashley Hamilton:
I was probably about 6'5", 6'6" when I was 15.

Brian Bosche:
Damn.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
Were you playing sports before that? What were you playing before?

Ashley Hamilton:
I started off playing football. I started playing football or soccer first, for you lot-

Skylar Smith:
Soccer.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. When I was three years old. Yeah. I always knew ... I remember, when I was three, I wanted to be an athlete. I knew I wanted to be a sportsman. That was my form of [inaudible 00:02:48] but that was my form of entertainment. I wanted to be an athlete, and I loved it. I dedicated myself to it. I had big dreams, like, "I want to play for the England team. I want to go to the World Cup." When I was 18, I was going to do what Michael Owen did, score two goals against Argentina. I was going to do all that.

Ashley Hamilton:
I was doing good at football. I did well in Germany when we lived out in Germany, and then we moved to London, kept playing in London, started getting scouted for a couple of teams here and there. But then, when I hit my growth spurt at around 13, I maybe went from under 6' to 6'3", 6'4" in a summer. Suddenly, I went from being quick and strong and athletic to very tall and gangly and just ... I couldn't really control my body, if that makes sense.

Skylar Smith:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Bosche:
It very much does, yes.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. And it happened very quickly. My hand-eye coordination went out the window, and the things that made me good at football, made me stand out, they weren't there anymore. The adjustment period was too much for me, and I went from being a standout to struggling. That was around the time when basketball came into my life.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. It's such an interesting theme that we see across a lot of athletes, where, 15 or 16 ... Imagine if you were drilling in those shots, getting those 10,000 hours in when you were five or six. But, then again, maybe you would've gotten burnt out. I was a tennis player growing up, trained in academies, totally burnt out, never played tennis again. So, maybe the fact that you had that athletic base, you got the footwork down playing football and then transitioned to basketball, maybe it helped. You never know when you look back like that.

Ashley Hamilton:
Definitely. The one thing about basketball for me that really attracted me to it was the fact that it wasn't just a physical sport, because I was pretty good at ... When we went to school, they make you do other sports, so you did your rugby, you did your cricket, you did all the other sports, sports such as rugby.

Ashley Hamilton:
I even played American football when I went to high school in the States. Obviously, there's a cerebral part of it, understanding where to be, what to do, the plays and everything else, but the crux of it is physicality, can you go out there and put your body on the line, be physical? And, if that comes easily to you, the sport ... you're halfway there, well, more than halfway there, you're a long way of the way there, whereas, basketball, there's that aspect of it, and you have to master the dexterity of the ball. There's so many different things you have to master. So, it was just a completely new challenge.

Ashley Hamilton:
I guess, in a way, it was similar to football. I had a ball at my feet all of my life, so controlling the ball and ... Football was similar to basketball, but it came easily to me because I'd been doing it my whole life, so that challenge just to be able to ... Just to do what I can do, not only did I have to work really hard to excel, I had to work really hard just to catch up to my peers, and that challenge excited me about basketball.

Skylar Smith:
That makes sense. You mentioned going to high school in the US. What was it like transitioning from British basketball to then playing high-school basketball and then college basketball in the US? What was it like for the basketball part of it? And then, I also want to hear, what was it like transitioning, in the social aspect, to American high school? I feel like we hear a lot, from people who aren't from the US, about, "Is American high school all that it's cracked up to be in movies and TV shows, like the prom and the jocks and the cafeteria lunchrooms and all of the things?" So, I want to hear about, A, your basketball experience and, B, your social experience in America.

Ashley Hamilton:
Well, the basketball, it was incredible to be in the basketball world, if that makes sense.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ashley Hamilton:
So, straight away, you go to America, and basketball's everywhere. There's gyms everywhere. There's the opportunities just to play the game. It's a lot more accessible.

Ashley Hamilton:
I actually went to prep school on the East Coast. So, all throughout my high school career and experiences, I was in nice gyms, I was in nice facilities. It was a big change, and it made me feel like, "Okay. I'm in the right place." So, that was probably the biggest difference. The game was everywhere. It wasn't a struggle to ... You didn't have to call people up. You could just go outside and play ball. I was in Boston, in Massachusetts at the time. So, if I went to the park, they were playing ball. If I went to the YMCA, they were playing ball. When I'd go to school, they were playing ball. It's not an issue to go get some competition in, and the competition is high. Everyone plays ball.

Brian Bosche:
Even at the park.

Ashley Hamilton:
Even at the park. The same way like here. Everyone plays football. Like I said, I've been playing football my whole life. I could very comfortably ... Say if we had the same thing here, if you could go to 24 Hour Fitness or LA Fitness out here, play football, I could go do that because it's something I've done my whole life. It's the same thing out there. So, to be in that culture for basketball was dope. It made me feel like, "Okay. I'm in the right place. This was a good step."

Ashley Hamilton:
Now, socially, it was a big change just because, obviously-

Brian Bosche:
Prep school in Massachusetts?

Skylar Smith:
In Boston?

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. In Boston. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was actually outside of Boston. There's a little city called Groton, Massachusetts. So, I stayed-

Brian Bosche:
I went to ...

Ashley Hamilton:
What did you say?

Brian Bosche:
I went to Dartmouth, so I got a lot of the prep school people coming into college.

Ashley Hamilton:
You went to Dartmouth?

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Ashley Hamilton:
Okay. So, I stayed-

Brian Bosche:
A lot of prep school people.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
A lot of stories I heard of prep school and high school.

Ashley Hamilton:
I stayed in [inaudible 00:08:59]. I stayed in [inaudible 00:08:59], and then had to drive all the way out to [inaudible 00:09:04] and I was at Groton, I was at Lawrence Academy. It looked how it was supposed to look, like on TV, how it looked in the stuff on TV. I know my experience was a lot better than a lot of the stories I've heard about all the different high schools out there in the States or whatever.

Ashley Hamilton:
I think the biggest thing for me was probably the education. For us, we have our GCSEs. Right?

Skylar Smith:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Bosche:
I have no idea what those are, but sure.

Ashley Hamilton:
[inaudible 00:09:39]. Basically, the best way for me to describe it is GCSE is what you guys do from freshman to senior year, but we just do it from ... We start two years earlier and we finish two years earlier. That's why a lot of kids, when they come from the UK and they go to the States, they have issues because the NCAA will say, "Oh. No. You graduated when you were 16, so you should be in college already." They messed up a lot of my friends back in the day just because of the lack of education or lack of knowledge on how to transfer the system.

Ashley Hamilton:
Basically, what that meant for me was I went out there my sophomore year, and I'd already done all the work before. So, everything we'd done before, it was redundant for me. It was easy. So, that was cool. I'd never been big on schoolwork anyway. I was good at it, but I just did it so I could play ball. The way the system works in the UK is you could be failing the whole year, don't hand in your homework, whatever, but, as long as you know the test at the end of the year, then you're doing good, where America's continuous assessment.

Ashley Hamilton:
So, I get out there, I see the work, I'm like, "Oh. This is easy." I'm showing up late. I'm in a new place. I'm enjoying myself. I'm working out. I'm at the gym the whole time. I'm with my new teammates. I'm trying to get used to everything. So, I'm showing up late, homework is there sometimes, sometimes it's not there. The classwork is whatever. I'm acing the tests. I'm doing what I do best, making sure I'm acing the tests. I find out halfway through the semester I got a 0.6-something GPA. I don't know. Something ridiculous. First of all, I don't know what a GPA is.

Skylar Smith:
You're like, "I don't even know what this means."

Brian Bosche:
"I've already graduated high school. Why am I taking these classes again?"

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. "I don't know what that is." So, then, obviously, my parents get a phone call, and I get an academic advisor telling me, "Oh. What's going on? Blah, blah, blah." Now, I'm in study hall every day.

Brian Bosche:
That's the real high school experience.

Ashley Hamilton:
That's the real high school experience.

Brian Bosche:
"Sit your butt in study hall."

Ashley Hamilton:
"Sit your butt in study hall, do your homework every day, get your grades up." Again, I was confused because I'm like, "I'm doing good," and they were like, "No, you're not. You've got to do good every single day," and I was like, "Okay." [inaudible 00:12:15]. That was a big change. So, that was the biggest, probably, culture change, educational-wise, for me. Once I got used to that, those types of things got better.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. It was amazing. I feel like I was really lucky because it was a prep school, so, a lot of things that maybe you don't get in an ordinary high school or a public high school, they were at my disposal. Even what I explained just now, for me to be able to fall on my face academically the way I did, and it wasn't because I wasn't capable. It was simply because I didn't understand. So, I had people that would help me through their system and help me get back on my feet.

Ashley Hamilton:
Again, I think about all the kids who didn't necessarily have that, and they went to another high school or they were expected to be adults at a younger age, and maybe they would've flamed out or flunked out, and everything's different after that, and they get named as a bad kid or whatever. So, I was very fortunate, and, afterwards, I started to make sure I made the most of it.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah. That's really funny. It's funny because it goes both ways. I went to the University of Michigan for uni, but I went and studied in the UK for a semester. I got there, and I couldn't believe that I didn't really have homework and I just basically was on my own-

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. She was shocked.

Skylar Smith:
-for the entire semester until the end when I had to submit a thesis and take these insane tests. But I've got to say it was lit to not have to do homework or be accountable all semester. "All right. I'll get it together at the end."

Brian Bosche:
That's a whole other podcast.

Skylar Smith:
It was fun.

Brian Bosche:
Just crushing homework.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. Exactly. In England, they just care about the results. Just make sure ... Obviously, they want you to be a good student and everything else, but, if you just ... "Look. This is what you need by the end of the year. Get it done." "All right. Cool."

Brian Bosche:
It's self-learning.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
This is turning into an education podcast, but, when you go to school all day, and then you have six hours of homework, it just is like, "What are we doing here? I'm tired."

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brian Bosche:
All right. Let's move on from education. I would love to go into that in another one.

Ashley Hamilton:
All right. Cool.

Skylar Smith:
Okay. Let's move on. So, you've played in the States. You've played in the UK. You've played around the world. This is a question we like to ask basically all of our guests that have played in different places. Do you find that there's a big culture adjustment with every new team that you join, or do you think that it's basketball is basketball everywhere?

Ashley Hamilton:
Do you mean with the style of play or [inaudible 00:14:57] or what?

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
Everything.

Brian Bosche:
Team, culture, style.

Skylar Smith:
You've got style of play, team culture, banter with your teammates.

Brian Bosche:
Refs. Maybe not refs. I don't want to get you fined.

Skylar Smith:
We're not trying to get you in trouble here.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. I don't think the refs over here are too happy with me because I kind of express myself sometimes.

Brian Bosche:
We know.

Ashley Hamilton:
They're good guys, but I just feel like they could be a lot better.

Brian Bosche:
Ashley, we just said we don't want to get you fined.

Ashley Hamilton:
Whatever. They're cool, man. Obviously, there's always an adjustment. It's always a change. In the States, it's ... I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. I think it's like you said. Different teams in different countries, it's a little bit different.

Ashley Hamilton:
One of things I always tell a young English player or a young guy who's going to go to another country as an import, "The first day when you show up is important. If you can dunk, dunk everything. Make sure you go and communicate, you communicate a lot, you encourage people, because that's the first impression." People will bring you in, but they're basically ... If you're coming on a scholarship, you're coming in as a player that they've spent money on to bring you in. They want to see that, "Okay. We've made a good decision." They don't want to be like, "Oh. Well, give him a couple of days. It's his first day." They want that.

Ashley Hamilton:
So, that's always been my approach. Whenever I go somewhere, I'm like, "Okay. Cool. I have to make sure that everyone knows, "Okay. This is why we got this guy."" That's always been my approach to it, and it's worked out well for me. After that, it's basketball. We all go through the same experiences. We're all similar anyway. We're on a similar journey. Some people are more dedicated to it than others.

Ashley Hamilton:
There's definitely an aspect of familiarity with the others because everyone knows you're here for this. I've gone to a lot of different countries, and, a lot of times, people will ask me, "Oh. What was it like there?" or, "How was it there?" I've even been to the Eastern Bloc, Far Eastern Bloc, like Ukraine. Some people would ask me, "You weren't worried about going there?" I've been to Lebanon, and people, again, they were like, "Were you not worried about going there? Syria's right there," and I was like, "Well, no, because ..."

Ashley Hamilton:
I always try to explain to people that my experience might be different from the average traveler's. If I just decide to go to one of these places by myself, then it might be a certain type of way, but, every time I've traveled for basketball, whether it's going to the States for school or visiting schools in the States in different places or going to teams, I'm already part of a group. Before I go there, I have contact with people. I know that someone's going to meet me. I get there. The media, the people know I'm coming.

Ashley Hamilton:
So, when I come, it's not like I'm just showing up in the country. I'm part of the system already. And then, because I do what I do, I go over there and everyone in the system is like, "Oh. Ashley's here." Now, I have a couple good practices, and it's like, "Oh, okay. Cool. He's one of us." It helps you adjust to whatever the culture might be, whatever city you're in, or whatever country or team or whatever.

Ashley Hamilton:
It's difficult to explain what each individual place is like, but everyone feels ... There's a few things. In every country, they feel like they're the number-one country in the world. That's number one.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
It's not just the US that thinks that?

Ashley Hamilton:
Oh. No. Obviously, Americans think they're the best. Italians think they're the best. Spanish think they're the best. Ukrainians think they're the best. The Lebanese, definitely, they think that they're the best. The Greek think they're the best, not just at the sport but in the world, at everything. So, they're the best people also.

Brian Bosche:
It seems like people in the UK, though, self-criticize more than other countries.

Skylar Smith:
They're like, "We know. We know we're not the best."

Ashley Hamilton:
We definitely know we ain't the best country.

Brian Bosche:
Just self-awareness as a country.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. Yeah. But we're very proud. Yeah. What else? What else? There's that, and then ... I guess it's all part of [inaudible 00:19:39] so it's been pretty easy for me, but, like I said, I have certain advantages at my disposal.

Brian Bosche:
It's such a good lesson of ... Basketball culture really does unite a lot of different cultures and people. If you step on a court, no matter what country you're in, it's a very uniting thing.

Brian Bosche:
I went to go play pick-up basketball in Paris. The way I get treated in a coffee shop or on the street or in tourist attractions, I'm just a stupid American, I can't speak French. But, when you go on a court, everyone's excited to play, "Oh. There's an American playing basketball," you immediately get integrated in, and it makes basketball really special.

Ashley Hamilton:
See, that's great for Americans, and that's what we go through a little bit. Americans, they have that passport, they have that stamp, "You're American, so we expect you guys to be good at basketball," whereas, British people from the UK, Europeans don't respect us at all. Americans don't respect us at all either. I think there's been a bit of a change over the last 10, 15 years, 20 years, but, at first, we did not get any respect. That's why it's been so important that British guys do well in Europe and do well when they go to the States, because we have to do a little bit more, but I feel like we surprise people with our ability and ...

Brian Bosche:
I think it's growing too. Having the success of Nick Nurse going from the BBL to NBA champion, Chris Finch just gets hired as the head coach. I think there's a little bit of a culture change where the BBL is more on the map. And, on that, we've had Christina Gaskin on and Melita Emanuel-Carr deciding to come back and play in the WBBL after going abroad, and you did something similar, where you came back to play for the Royals. What excited you about coming back to the UK and playing in the BBL, at the Royals and then, now, the Raiders?

Ashley Hamilton:
Everything was timing. The first time, everything was timing. I was at a stage where I felt like I was being hired to help these teams and organizations fulfill their agenda, and I was always being left out on the sideline. I feel like I was never getting my opportunity. There comes that stage, as a professional, you get recognized as a good professional, but there's a stage where either they're going to pay you what you're worth or they're going to bring someone younger in to start off, or they're going to take care of one of their guys.

Ashley Hamilton:
Because, in the UK, we didn't necessarily have that type of infrastructure or the opportunity for British guys to stay home and get their market value, we had to go and find solace in other places and other countries. I got fed up about it, and I got frustrated about what was happening to me, and always being overlooked. And then, the Royals came out of nowhere. There were some people that I knew in the organization, and they were willing to give me my market value and take care of me, and it felt like it was a bit ...

Ashley Hamilton:
I always knew I wanted to play in the BBL. It's just that I didn't know if it would ever be a possibility. This time was the first time that ... And I didn't have to worry about, "I have to come in and have an amazing year or do this and that." It was simply, "Can I help build something positive here?"

Ashley Hamilton:
In the same way, in other countries, there's guys who they have jobs every year because that's where they're from, they're known to be from there, they're known to be professionals, work hard, and you bring these people in, and we're building something positive for our teams. As an import, you're usually just, "Okay. This guy can fill that gap. This guy can fill that gap. Did a good job. Maybe we'll sign you another year or you move on." There's no personal relationship there. Sometimes, some guys get lucky enough to build there or have opportunities, but you never know how that goes, whereas, me coming home, I had the opportunity to be part of something bigger than just being a hired gun or whatever.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. That makes sense.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. It was timing, and it worked out for me to sign, but then, obviously, shit went in the toilet. That's part of life. But, again, this time, when I came back, it was because, again ... I went out to Europe again last season, and I had a good season. The pandemic hit, and I had a contract to, again, stay with the team if we get promoted. We were on the way to get promoted, pandemic hit, and, all of a sudden, Europe was like ... well, with me personally. I don't know what happened to the other guys. It's always this way. Teams are always like, "Yeah. Come on. We want you. This will be a great opportunity for you," but I feel like teams immediately, as soon as the pandemic happened, they used that opportunity to low-ball players and to use it as an opportunity to get guys at a discount.

Brian Bosche:
That's tough.

Ashley Hamilton:
Obviously, companies have to make adjustments. Some guys went on furlough or some teams put people on furlough. In the basketball world, for instance, there were some [inaudible 00:25:19]. I was very lucky. In my team, they were like, "We're going to pay you guys throughout it all." They put us on furlough, so we didn't get all of our money, but we still got what anyone else would get, where, some other teams, they were just like, "Oh. No. It's a pandemic. There's nothing you can do about it." FIBA also said, "Anyone who complains about not getting their money, we're not going to help because it is a pandemic."

Brian Bosche:
Jeez.

Ashley Hamilton:
So, for the next season, straight away, teams were like, "Oh. Well, we've only got this much, but come on. It's a great opportunity for you, and you should take it because it's a pandemic."

Ashley Hamilton:
And then, Plymouth came. I wasn't planning on coming home, but they were like, "Well, we're trying to build something. We're doing this and that. We're not going to low-ball you." So, I was like, "Okay. Well, I'll listen then." So, we started a conversation from there, and, from there, it advanced. So, again, it was timing.

Ashley Hamilton:
I feel like, as a basketball player, actually, you just want to go where people want you, and you want to go where you're appreciated, and you want to go and do a good job for those people, because it's always tough when ... because, as much as you love playing the sport, there's a lot of politics in it, and it's not always fun. You get satisfaction out of the hard work you put into it, but, when you can be in a situation where you feel appreciated and you feel like you're happy with the contract and the situation, then you can get through the year at a better pace without maybe burning out like you might do in some other places.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. It's been great getting to know the Raiders organization. We're having Paul on. I interviewed Mike on the new Plymouth Raiders podcast right after he joined. He's a great guy. And you've had a really strong last month or so on the Raiders, a little bit slower of a start. Paul and I were tweeting back and forth like, "All right. We've got to get you on once you get a big win," and then you beat the Lions, and you've had a series of bigger wins here. What has helped the team rebound back a little bit more and start to play and move up the rankings?

Ashley Hamilton:
Well, at the beginning of the season, our team was a little bit incomplete, and that was, again, the pandemic. The guys who we have now, they were actually going to bring them in before the season, but everybody had to make their adjustments. But it meant that a lot of guys got play time and a lot of guys ... We were out there together and we were [inaudible 00:27:54]. Even though we dropped games which we could've still won, it allowed us to have a foundation and experience, so a lot of guys gained experience and confidence so that when we did add someone, we were reinforcing us. It wasn't that we were replacing guys, but we were just adding more to the pot. Part of basketball is your depth. I think that's the most important part. [inaudible 00:28:26] guys are in, guys are out. It's so important.

Ashley Hamilton:
As an import in Europe, when we talk about our teams, the imports cancel each other out. It's the nationals who really matter. It's the same thing, if you look at any league, if you look at the NBA or whatever, the stars, they cancel each other out. It's the rest of the team that really makes a difference. It's the same with us now. I feel like, with additions, we have a team that is very competent and very strong, and, no matter who's on the court ... That's my son.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. He wants to get on the podcast.

Ashley Hamilton:
He came over here just now, but now he's with his toys. Yeah. So, us going through [inaudible 00:29:22] without the new guys or the guys who have come in the last couple of months, again, it's given a lot of people more confidence and the knowing that, "If we are out there, we believe in you, and you can do a great job." I think it's all come together.

Ashley Hamilton:
Over time, we grow, remold. We really have a great group of guys. It's a really good bunch. I think people care about getting good results no matter what the circumstances are that we have to deal with. Put all those things together, and it leads to more positive results than negative ones, I think.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Definitely.

Skylar Smith:
Well, that was a very well-thought-out, well-said answer, so I'm going to follow that up with a bit of a softball listener question for you.

Ashley Hamilton:
Go on.

Skylar Smith:
Give you a little break. Friend of the pod Paul Nicholson wants to know, who has the best shoe game on the Plymouth Raiders?

Ashley Hamilton:
Oh. He wants to sit here.

Brian Bosche:
Oh. Hello. Welcome to the podcast.

Skylar Smith:
Hi. He's so confused.

Ashley Hamilton:
Can you say hi?

Skylar Smith:
Oh. He's so cute.

Ashley Hamilton:
He wanted to see so badly, and now he's shy. The best shoe game. First of all, the best shoe game on the team is me. I've stepped away from the shoe game world, if that makes sense. All of my shoes are back in LA and London, and I'm not so into that world anymore. [inaudible 00:30:55] would have to be Andrew, Paul, or Phil.

Brian Bosche:
Oh. I was hoping you wouldn't say Paul. Paul shows them off before games.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah. Paul was really just ...

Brian Bosche:
He wanted to ... He was baiting you.

Skylar Smith:
He was really just giving you [inaudible 00:31:10] to say him in this one, so I was hoping you just wouldn't.

Ashley Hamilton:
I've got to give the man his props. You've got to give him his credit.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah. That's true.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Ashley Hamilton:
He puts the time in. He finds them. [inaudible 00:31:21]. What I like about Paul is he'll do different colors also. I like people that are a bit creative with it too. So, I like that a lot. Andrew, he's a vet. He don't count, though, because he had a Nike deal.

Brian Bosche:
Oh, yeah. Doesn't count.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. He don't count. He's cheating. But, still, a good shoe collection is a good shoe collection. Like I said, Phil [inaudible 00:31:49] just because Phil's our GM, just because he doesn't necessarily have basketball shoes, but he's got all the Air Maxes, he's got a lot of variety.

Ashley Hamilton:
If I was to get back into the shoe game, my own style now ... Back in the day, I did the Jordans. I had all the Jordans. Now, I wouldn't personally buy the Js. I'd buy lifestyle trainers, but I wouldn't just get the same. I think, when I was younger, my style was more about, "Okay. What's hot? I need that," but, now, I want something that's hot but most people might not have, so something a little bit different or a classic shoe or whatever. I remember, one of the ones I was most proud about, I played one of my college ... my junior year, I played it in the Penny 4s.

Brian Bosche:
Dang.

Ashley Hamilton:
That was crazy because no one had the Penny 4s. Me and my point guard [inaudible 00:32:52] that was a big deal [inaudible 00:32:54].

Skylar Smith:
You stepped on the court, and opponents were like, "Shit."

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. Because no one had the Pennys. When you're wearing stuff like that, people are like, "Oh. Whoa. You've got the Pennys." Everyone's wearing Js or everyone's wearing LeBrons or Kobes.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. The T-Mac 2s. If you were wearing the T-Mac 2s, I was so intimidated by you.

Ashley Hamilton:
The T-Mac 2s were ... Are those the ones with the ... the white and blue ones?

Brian Bosche:
The swoop. Yeah. The white and blue with the swoop on the toe.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. The T-Mac 2s were my first basketball shoe that I wore when I felt like I was good enough to have new shoes. When I first started playing ball, because I started playing so late, I just felt like I was shitty, so I needed to wear some shitty shoes.

Brian Bosche:
That's a very funny way of looking at it.

Skylar Smith:
Like, "I haven't earned these yet."

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah, yeah.

Brian Bosche:
It's fair. You had to be good to wear those.

Ashley Hamilton:
That's how I felt.

Skylar Smith:
That is fair, actually. I feel like, if you show up and you have these insane shoes, then you're just setting expectations high.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. You can't wear arm sleeves.

Skylar Smith:
If you're bad, it's like, "Who does this guy think he is?"

Ashley Hamilton:
You can't do that. I feel like I had to have a level of humility about me, and I felt like, one day, when I was good enough, then I could do it, but, until then, no. I found a pair of [inaudible 00:34:07] underneath the stairs. My dad had them. He never even played ball in them. I think he used to cut the grass in them, in the garden. There was a hole inside the toes, and I wore those until I was 17 and a half, 18. I wore those to Five Star camp in Pennsylvania. I wore those to Adidas camp in Berlin. I wore them everywhere. And then, two years into-

Brian Bosche:
You got the upgrade.

Ashley Hamilton:
I got the upgrade. I got the T-Macs.

Brian Bosche:
All right. On that line of questions, Nat Coombs, question this morning on Twitter, which I love [inaudible 00:34:40], "Who's the best-dressed member of the Sky BBL crew?" I think you showed up in an incredible turtleneck ensemble, which Skylar broke down.

Ashley Hamilton:
I did my thing.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Ashley Hamilton:
I did my thing. I did my thing. Yeah. Thank you, by the way. I appreciate the love on that.

Brian Bosche:
Skylar's big on BBL fits, so love the turtleneck.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah.

Ashley Hamilton:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I wanted to be a little bit unique in that situation. I'd seen some of the things that everyone else would be wearing, so I thought, "Okay. No." I made a decision to wear my glasses too, because I thought that no one would wear glasses. I thought about that outfit, and I talked to my girlfriend about it. She was like, "Yeah. Go for it." So, that one worked well.

Ashley Hamilton:
I think, personally, I would say Nat just because he makes it look so flawless and easy, and he's got experience in it, and he'll give you versatility. He'll wear the jacket one day with a sweatshirt. I've seen him wear some trousers. I've seen him wear some jeans, some shoes, some trainers. He's very comfortable in it and transitioning in it, so I think he just shows his ... He shows his experience and his class.

Brian Bosche:
He's talent. When he was on the pod, we were like, "Nat, you're talent, man. You pull this off. You're so good."

Ashley Hamilton:
He's too good, and he's smooth with it. I definitely feel like Kieron has done his thing a few times.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. The big and tall. The 6'9" cuts, the 6'10" cuts.

Ashley Hamilton:
[inaudible 00:36:11]. When I was on the show, Ant went with the classic ... I think it was classic '05, the sweatshirt with the shirt hanging out. You know what I mean?

Brian Bosche:
Yep.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. That was back in the day. That was a very American style back in the day.

Brian Bosche:
This is Skylar's favorite podcast, by the way.

Skylar Smith:
I am so into this.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah?

Skylar Smith:
Also, I have a question.

Ashley Hamilton:
Go on.

Skylar Smith:
I really like your glasses.

Ashley Hamilton:
Thank you.

Skylar Smith:
Who had them first, you or DeAndre Liggins. He has the same ones, right? Very similar.

Ashley Hamilton:
I don't think he has these. These are Tom Ford, and then my others are Ray-Ban. Yeah. So, I don't think he has these ones, but ...

Skylar Smith:
A similar style.

Ashley Hamilton:
I don't know the guy, but if-

Brian Bosche:
You guys are bringing a lot of new fashion, a lot of new swag to the BBL, which is fun to see.

Skylar Smith:
I'm into it.

Ashley Hamilton:
It's part of it. It's part of it. So, if there's more opportunity to do that, then I'll definitely show out for you a bit more here and there.

Skylar Smith:
[inaudible 00:37:15].

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. I definitely respect him for having the same style of frames as me. I don't know if his are prescription, though. I actually need glasses.

Skylar Smith:
I know. I trust that yours are prescription, and I've never trusted that his are prescription.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. That's okay, though.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. I need these to see.

Skylar Smith:
Whatever. It's a look.

Brian Bosche:
It's a look. Any other final-

Ashley Hamilton:
I think ...

Brian Bosche:
Oh. Go ahead.

Ashley Hamilton:
I think Drew was bugging with those skinny jeans that one time, the white skinnies.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. He does a nice job.

Ashley Hamilton:
No. I think he was bugging with the white ones.

Brian Bosche:
Oh. Overall, he does a nice job. Friend of the pod, Drew Lasker.

Ashley Hamilton:
It was a nice fit, and it took a lot of courage and bravery to do that. He pulled it off. Maybe that's me, but he pulled it off. I think it was a risky move, but I think he does a good job overall. I like his style. No. I know Drew outside of basketball [inaudible 00:38:08], and he always dresses well, so I like that.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Definitely. All right. Let's go on to EuroBasket. Skylar, I'm going to cue you up here for your question.

Skylar Smith:
Great.

Brian Bosche:
After sealing your passage to 2022 EuroBasket, man, that was a fun weekend, that was a fun qualifying window there, following a brilliant win over Germany on a last-second shot by Luke Nelson, you capped it off by beating France 94 to 74. Joined by your son now, Skylar.

Skylar Smith:
I'm so distracted now because his son is in frame and he's so cute.

Brian Bosche:
Cuing you up, Skylar. What's your question? EuroBasket.

Skylar Smith:
Oh. Sorry. Sorry. I really was distracted.

Brian Bosche:
Snap back into the interview. Cute baby alert.

Skylar Smith:
Right. Just tell us how you and the team are feeling after qualifying for EuroBasket. How does it feel?

Ashley Hamilton:
It's always nice when you accomplish a goal that you set out to do. So, this was maybe, what, three, four years in the making? I think EuroBasket is every four years now. It used to be every two years. It's every four years now. Yeah. I think, as a team, we've made the last five out of the last six EuroBaskets, but this was an important one because [inaudible 00:39:23] changing of the guard, so, a lot of the guys who were involved in previous competitions, they're not there anymore, so this is like it's our team now, and guys who weren't in the squad consistently, like myself, or weren't getting play time. Everyone's had to step up at different stages and different levels.

Ashley Hamilton:
So, for us to come out and do what we've done ... I think, the last three games, we [inaudible 00:39:50]. We've won 11 out of 13 games at our last 13 games. A lot of new, younger guys have been introduced into the fold, and they've done well. We've had no support from the BBF, and there's been a lot of turmoil within ... a lot of things that we can't control. So, to accomplish the goal with all that being said, we're very happy about it. But, at the same time, it's something that we felt was very doable and something that we could accomplish. We have guys who play in France, the top league and the second league.

Brian Bosche:
[inaudible 00:40:33] this year.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. [inaudible 00:40:34] there this year. We know the French guys. We play against them all the time in tournaments in the summertime. The same with Germany. I was born in Germany. Myles has played in Germany. We've had a couple other guys play in Germany. Dave has played Germany. It's just things where, maybe, in the past, there might have been intimidation to be playing teams from another country or whatever, but, through our experiences and through the things we've done in the past, we just knew there was something we could do, and we knew that we could qualify.

Ashley Hamilton:
It's just a stepping stone, if that makes sense. We would've been more disappointed if we didn't. [inaudible 00:41:20]. We actually feel like we dropped two games. The first game [inaudible 00:41:27] feel like it wasn't our best showing. And then, when France spanked us in November, that was ... Again, they jumped on us early.

Brian Bosche:
It was the first quarter. They had all their shots go, yours didn't go, and then it was just like, "All right." It was just a first-quarter loss.

Ashley Hamilton:
It was that. Also, it was to do with the pandemic. We had guys who hadn't played a game since maybe February. It is what it is. It was a perfect storm, and this went really badly for us.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. It was unfortunate that the women didn't qualify. So, having you follow up with those big wins, I think, was really good for British basketball.

Brian Bosche:
Couple questions here. We have another audience question. "What was your reaction to that game winner over Germany?" The little lefty scoop shot off the backboard. And then, Mister Jay Breezy asked, "What is your favorite basketball moment ever>?" maybe apart from that. So, walk us through that reaction. Then, tell us about maybe another favorite basketball moment memory.

Ashley Hamilton:
That was a big moment just because ... I remember, the first game, for Luke, was difficult against France, right? I remember, before this game, I told him, "Be ready for it. They're going to be super physical with you." [inaudible 00:42:46]. It was a special moment for him. I was glad we were able to share it with him. Any game winning is always ... it's amazing. We just ran onto the court. It was like, "Whoa. That was tough." We were just happy for him in that moment, and we celebrated it well.

Brian Bosche:
You saw a lot of kids on TikTok and social media recreating the shot, which is always cool to see, just inspiring that next generation.

Ashley Hamilton:
Again, that's the amazing part of it. Say that we lost the game, we'd lose the opportunity to grow the game a little bit, if that makes sense. The respect that we got from that, even though we were supposed to have it before, you only get respect for what you've done. So, it was a really important moment. But, when it happened, we didn't think about it like that. We just thought, "Oh, shit. He made the shot." And it was tough. We got bumped a little bit. The left-hand scoop, that was a really tough [inaudible 00:43:48].

Brian Bosche:
It's a tough shot.

Ashley Hamilton:
A very tough shot. Luke's got a good left hand, but that was tough. That was tough.

Brian Bosche:
I recreated it with Skylar, and I think I threw it over the backboard my first try, Skylar.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
That is not an easy shot in that moment.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. It takes some practice. It does take some practice. Yeah. And, the way it went in, it didn't bounce around or nothing. It just hit the backboard, went straight down. It was super clean. That was a tough shot. That was a very tough shot. That was a very tough shot.

Brian Bosche:
Any other highlights, best, favorite basketball moments ever apart from that?

Ashley Hamilton:
I don't know, man. Whenever you win and you win something, you win a championship or something, that's always an amazing moment just because, for that to happen, a lot of things have to go right, and not just on the day, for a season. So, those have always been big moments for me. The last championship I won, we won the BBL trophy in 2019. That was huge. The year before that, I won the league in Spain. That was huge. That was huge. We got the team promoted and everything.

Ashley Hamilton:
One of my favorites is still my first championship ever, and, for me, it counts 100%. I was in college in the States. In the summertime, they make you do the camps so you can make some money. We won the championship. My team won the championship. I beat all the other [inaudible 00:45:26]. The kids bought into it. At first, I was running a daycare. I wasn't necessarily coaching them, because they were young. They were, I think, in between five and seven or five and eight, so I thought they just wanted to mess around and play, but they were about basketball. So, the more I coached them, the better they did, and we ended up winning. We beat some of the teams that were supposed to win, and they were so happy.

Brian Bosche:
I love that.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. That was the first time I thought to myself, "Oh. Whoa. I might coach one day."

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Secure the Summer Camp Seven-Year-Old Championship, and you ride that high.

Ashley Hamilton:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. That's a big moment.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. Big time. That's on my resume. That was a big moment for me.

Skylar Smith:
Well, look. Now, you've got a little one you can coach.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. You've got new players to develop.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah.

Ashley Hamilton:
Oh. I don't know. I don't know. Coaching is tough. Coaching is tough.

Brian Bosche:
All right, Skylar. Don't get distracted.

Skylar Smith:
Okay. Back to EuroBasket. This is something I've always wondered. I feel like things Americans don't like: ties, waiting. What happens between now and 2022 when you play again? Are you guys still practicing together? Are there things that the team wants to work on in the meantime? Are you not going to see each other until then? What's the deal there? I've never quite understood how far out you're qualifying and how much time goes by in between. It feels like it could be a completely different team.

Brian Bosche:
I logically feel the same way, Skylar. I'm like, "2022? [inaudible 00:47:09]."

Skylar Smith:
That is next year [inaudible 00:47:13] our brains might not be comprehending.

Ashley Hamilton:
It was supposed to be this year, but, obviously, it got pushed back. That's why it's next year. The next thing we have is we have three qualifying windows for the World Championships. The first one is going to be in November. Then, we have February 2022 and June 2022. And then, obviously, we have EuroBasket 2022. So, the same system we just went through to qualify for EuroBasket, we're going to go through that for the next championship. I guess that will be our warm-up and us getting ready for the EuroBasket championships also.

Ashley Hamilton:
This summer, they haven't necessarily put a plan together yet, but I think they're trying to get some friendly games in together, and I think it's an opportunity to maybe bring some younger guys along or guys who haven't been given the opportunity yet, just because the windows nowadays compared to back in the day ... Back in the day, we used to be together for a month, a month and a half, two months. Now, we're together for 10 days, and there's no time for evaluation or for changes or whatever.

Ashley Hamilton:
Our team, we're a pretty close team, so, most of us, we're in contact all the time anyway. Like I said, it's a different kind of [inaudible 00:48:29] from what it was before. So, we know the team, if that makes sense. But, the end of the year, 2022 is a long time away, so you never know what might happen between now and then. We're just going to have to stay ready and just be there to support the team as best as possible, whatever happens. We just know that we have these three qualifying windows for the World Championships, and that will be the next step, make sure we qualify for that also, and then have a good show in the EuroBasket and just go from there, keep building, keep building on what we started.

Brian Bosche:
I'm hoping, with this momentum, you get some more funding, do things in the summer, put some more of these together, because, you're right, having people not play for months or weeks before the first France game, having just that short training window, not being able to gel as a team, it's tough. So, hopefully, that success drives a little more funding there.

Brian Bosche:
To close this out, we have some more listener questions and just more about basketball in the UK in general. So, Chain Net Apparel asks, "What innovations could the BBL bring to reach more NBA UK fans?" We found that there's a lot of NBA fans or BBL fans. We don't see there's a lot of crossover. If you're an NBA fan, you might not even know the BBL exists. So, what do you think could bring in more BBL fans from people who are already a fan of the NBA and basketball in general?

Ashley Hamilton:
That's a big question. It's an important question.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. You have 60 seconds go.

Skylar Smith:
Fix it.

Brian Bosche:
Fix it for us.

Ashley Hamilton:
Well, first of all Chain Net Apparel, that's my guy. That's a brand that I work with personally.

Brian Bosche:
Who is the name behind the brand? Chain Net Apparel. Is it @chainnetapparel?

Ashley Hamilton:
It's @chainnetapparel. Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
Okay. Go follow Chain Net Apparel.

Ashley Hamilton:
They actually just sent me some stuff. It's crazy. Chain Net Apparel. Look. The stuff is dope. [inaudible 00:50:27].

Skylar Smith:
Oh. Nice.

Brian Bosche:
Oh. I really like that.

Skylar Smith:
That's a cool logo.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. It's like [inaudible 00:50:33].

Brian Bosche:
Sign into our YouTube to see these things.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah.

Ashley Hamilton:
They changed it a little bit. It's really cool stuff.

Brian Bosche:
Ooh.

Skylar Smith:
Oh. Nice.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. It's really cool stuff.

Brian Bosche:
I really like that.

Skylar Smith:
Cool stuff.

Ashley Hamilton:
A really good guy, and he loves basketball.

Skylar Smith:
Nice.

Brian Bosche:
I love those designs.

Skylar Smith:
I love that logo. Yeah.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. That's my guy, by the way. One of the things that he does is, not only does he have a brand, he cares about basketball, watches basketball, is interested in basketball, and, just from our collaboration, the goal is to help get my name out in the British world a little bit and help his brand build in the basketball world also.

Ashley Hamilton:
So, I think that aspect of it, I think the reason we love the NBA so much is David Stern put a big emphasis in highlighting the players of the league, because that's really where the connection comes from, not necessarily the teams but the players and things of that nature. And, as that's grown, as the players have become more household names around the world and around the basketball community, the league has grown because you care about the players, you have that connection. There's kids, for instance, who ... they might not be a die-hard basketball fan or fans of the Warriors, but they love Steph, they love everything about Steph or everything associated with Steph and of that nature. Now, obviously, we don't have a Steph Curry in the BBL.

Ashley Hamilton:
To have moments where we highlight the Luke Nelson game winner or things like that around the league. I think the BBL is trying. Selina Conroy, she's done a lot of things this year with the BBL to try and highlight the players, stuff like the BBL show and having us on Sky and things of that nature, just to build the relationship of the consumer and the players, so people, again, feel connected to everything that's going on, because there's a lot going on.

Ashley Hamilton:
It's tough being a player, but it's also tough if you care about the sport. You need accessibility to it. I think why the NBA is so popular in the UK, because there's so many more outlets to get your hands in it, where, the BBL, even now, it's tough to get a game, it's tough to watch a game, it's tough to get any gear or apparel or whatever. Even stuff like that. It's hard to get your local team's shirt or some stuff or whatever.

Ashley Hamilton:
Just continuing to build that relationship between the players and the fans and the consumers and people who really care about the game, I think that'd be really important. That'd be something that should be highlighted and built on in the future, especially as some of these younger guys and guys are going straight from here to high-major D1s. Just build that relationship, build the players up, show that they're supported, and it will help in the future.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. I think that's a great answer. We've done that on the pod. We've talked to Selina about that. It's amazing, as new BBL fans coming in, where, last spring, we didn't know if there'd even be a season, now, there's a new BBL player despite some of the issues. They're working through it. But, now, you can have access to all these games, you have Sky Sports.

Skylar Smith:
First year.

Brian Bosche:
It's the first year. Technology's hard. You have Sky Sports. You have the TikTok partnership. There's a lot more emphasis on these player stories, which is amazing to see. We're seeing some momentum build, which is exciting.

Ashley Hamilton:
I think guys like yourself, though, and everyone who takes the time and does media around the sport that's not directly BBL media but just people who care about the sport and people who take the time to do things like what you guys are doing, I think it's very underrated, and I think it's very much needed. I think the first person we know who did that around the British basketball game was probably Sam at Hoopsfix.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Full-time British basketball advocate. Love Sam.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. Yeah. Great guy. But, from there, it's just grown. To have the more outlets we have means there's more people who care about it, which means that more people can find out about it. We have to make sure that we continue to support each other. And, as that grows, everything else will grow too.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
Well, we appreciate you coming on. I think that's a great place to end it. Good luck with the rest of the season and getting healthy and getting out of isolation.

Ashley Hamilton:
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. [inaudible 00:55:24].

Skylar Smith:
Thanks, Ashley.

Ashley Hamilton:
Thanks for having me.