Christina Gaskin from the Leicester Riders on playing in the WBBL

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Skylar Smith and Brian Bosche are joined by former D1 hooper and WBBL Trophy Winner Christina Gaskin from the Leicester Riders. They chat with Christina about her journey to playing at Fordham University, moving back to the UK to play in the WBBL, the Leicester Riders strong start in the WBBL Cup, and how basketball can grow in the UK. Skylar and Brian also talk about the BBL Cup games from the past weekend, the upcoming BBL coverage on Sky Sports, the newly launched streaming service BBL Player, and GB Basketball playing in the EuroBasket qualifiers.

Full Transcript:

Brian Bosche:
Hi everyone and welcome back to High Tea Hoops. This is Brian Bosche at The Duke of Hoops and I am joined by Skylar Smith, the Duchess of Hoops. What's up Duchess.

Skylar Smith:
Hi Brian, super excited to talk to our first WBBL player today.

Brian Bosche:
I know, we have been trying to for a while and I am so excited to bring on Christina Gaskin of the Leicester Riders and marketing consultant. Christina, welcome to the podcast, thanks so much for joining.

Christina Gaskin:
Thank you for having me.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, well this is going to be exciting. You're rolling off of a huge WBBL cup when yesterday, or not huge but you blew them out in the fourth quarter, you were undefeated through the different stages so it's a pretty exciting time to catch up with you. But just to get started for our audience, you want to give yourself a little intro. What's your background in basketball? We'd love to just hear high level who you are.

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah, so I started playing basketball[inaudible 00:00:56] I guess for the international level and I started playing at the time because I was six five, six six at the time, so it was a tremendous challenge for me, I lost every single game that we played them on the driveway together. But I just fell in love with the sport and although I was horrendous at the beginning and couldn't make a basket if my life depended on it, somehow I still managed to enjoy it and found it really fun to be in a team environment. So I kept working hard, became quite a gym rat I guess in my earlier junior career, and joined a club, managed to work really hard within the club basketball also with some of my school coaches at the time.

Christina Gaskin:
Got to a point where I guess someone saw some talent in me because they picked me for regional teams. From there I got picked to represent or join the National Team and training camp where I finally was able to join the Under-16 European Championship Team I think in 2009, which feels a lifetime ago to say-

Brian Bosche:
Seriously.

Christina Gaskin:
But I was only 14 at the time. So that was a huge experience for me, first time on international stage, seeing international competition, and even though obviously I didn't play a lot during that competition, I think it was really great to be able to see the disparity in terms of the level of the game in Europe versus what we understood the level of the games to be domestically.

Christina Gaskin:
And I think even currently it's quite hard for younger players to realize that in England where basket was relatively small and growing but still small, you can feel like a big fish in a small pond, but as soon as you get out into the broader basketball world and you see European hoops or even college hoops, you realize that you're actually just a tiny fish in a massive ocean.

Brian Bosche:
Yes.

Christina Gaskin:
So that humbled me and pushed me to work really hard as a junior. I was never satisfied, I was quite relentless in my training efforts, probably too much so sometimes, and I was able to secure a scholarship to play college basketball for Fordham University, which is in the A-10 conference on the East coast of America in New York.

Brian Bosche:
Which is a huge accomplishment for any British basketball player. There's not that many who get those D1 scholarships.

Christina Gaskin:
Definitely, and I was extremely grateful. I had a few different options to choose from so I landed on New York because it's a really good academic school as well as a good basketball program. So it was important for me to develop both sides of my sort of dual career at that point. We won at A-10 championship my junior year so we went to the NCAA tournament, lost in the first round, but to even be there-

Brian Bosche:
You still made it. March Madness?

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah. Which is something to really be proud of and then-

Brian Bosche:
Did people in the UK understand March Madness and just how much of a cultural phenomenon it is?

Christina Gaskin:
I don't think that people in the UK generally understand or appreciate how big sports is in America. And I think that's one of the struggles, when I was in college in America as an athlete, I was celebrated, we were the pinnacle of the students within the college. And people looked up to you, you're a role model. I know some schools I imagine you are somewhat of a celebrity, whereas growing up in the UK and playing sport, it's like, why are you playing basketball? Isn't that bad for? Why are you trying to do that? So it's just a completely different stereotype. And it was nice to step overseas actually, and to be celebrated, especially as a female playing sport because that was something that at least, growing up as a junior player in this country, it wasn't something that was really celebrated and it's getting bigger nowadays. There's more media surrounding female sports, but obviously I think in college in America with Title IX and the equalitY that's been brought about because of that, there's just so much more resources and attention towards female sports.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, if you don't know title IX, it was a mandate for college sports where you had to have an equal number of scholarships for men as women. So with men playing American football where there's I don't know, a hundred players, that means there's a lot of more scholarships available for women. So maybe on the tennis team or basketball team, for men there might be two or three scholarships where for women there's five or seven. So you have a lot more opportunity to grow that side and that's why we typically are very good at women's sports in the U S, just look at our women's soccer team versus our men's soccer team nationally. But yeah, Skylar understands, Skylar went to University of Michigan, so just[crosstalk 00:05:33] college basketball, they're huge on campus.

Christina Gaskin:
I actually grew up in Michigan I spent a lot of my childhood there

Skylar Smith:
Really, where?

Brian Bosche:
Wow, where?

Christina Gaskin:
Novi.

Brian Bosche:
Oh my God.

Skylar Smith:
That's so weird, that's an hour from where I grew up. That is so weird.

Christina Gaskin:
Really?

Skylar Smith:
Yeah. So you mean you came out of Michigan and you're not a Pistons fan how did that happen?

Christina Gaskin:
So I was very young in my defense, at the time I think I moved to America when I was one, one and a half with my family. My dad had a career move and I was there for four or five years, and then we came back to England and then I actually went back a second time to Michigan for two or three years. So I spent a large part of my early childhood in America, so I somewhat have a bit of an identity crisis from that situation, but that's a story for another day.

Brian Bosche:
I'm imagining six year old Christina, kicking Skyler's ass in basketball in some Michigan basketball league. That would be amazing.

Skylar Smith:
Maybe.

Brian Bosche:
Maybe it'll happen.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah. We'll have to get together after this call and talk some shit about that state. I'd love to hear more though about what it was like transitioning from British Basketball to College Basketball. So you touched on, there's a lot more recognition for women ballers in the U S and I read your blog and how you guys get the insane gear and you get just 150 pieces of gear every year and how that's not even really a thing in the UK, but was there a transition as far as the playing style went? Was there a transition as far as how you interacted with coaches or teammates with the cultural differences, what was that transition like?

Christina Gaskin:
So I think one of the most poignant things that I explained to some of my American teammates when I was a freshmen in college was, they were really impressed that I've obviously had the opportunity to play for my National Team and to travel to all these different European countries playing basketball. But when I explained to them that quite often, a lot of the time I had to pay to be able to do that as a junior player in this country, because there just isn't the money in the sport to be able to justify paying for all of these different camps that we had to go on, training camps, flights that we'd have to pay to travel.

Christina Gaskin:
And granted there was a certain budget, but it was never enough to cover the entirety of the program, and the coaches and team managers at the time did a very good job of trying to allocate resources well and partner with people so that we could maximize as much as possible, our preparation, et cetera. But going from that to go into a program that has a budget in excess of $150,000 in any given season, it was just insane to me. Playing for my National team, having to pay to be able to be on my national team, to attending a team where we're taking chatered flights from one game to the next on a weekly basis.

Christina Gaskin:
So it was just night and day in terms of the resource and the money that funded the programs, but I think to answer your question in terms of some of the adjustments and cultural differences, I didn't decide the play it's no secret is extremely different in Europe to America and more personally for me, I'm used to playing with a lot of freedom and having the ability to make decisions, to push the pool, play at a very high pace, and quite often with that with European basketball, sometimes they're all like more turnovers, or you play higher possession games. But you'll see more creativity and more independence given to the players to be able to make the decisions on court. And one of the first things that I noticed playing in the States is that, at least the team that I was on, was it heavily structured?

Christina Gaskin:
A lot of the sets were called by the coach from the sidelines. We ran a very, very slow paced game, a lot of screen action, not a lot of motion, free movement, offenses. And so I found myself trying to be a square peg fitting into a circle hole at times, because a lot of my advantages playing basketball is my speed for my size, or my ability to just be quicker than most big, so be able to attack them on the premise of, but then if they tried to put a guard on me, then I can go inside and post them up. So that was my offensive advantage because I didn't really fit within the structure that I was playing in, in college. I found it really difficult because I tried to manipulate my game to fit the system that I was in, which ultimately I think was far too difficult, but yeah.

Brian Bosche:
You see that with so many college programs where the coaches have so much power, and it's their system or out. I know, I went to Dartmouth where your scholarship doesn't depend on the sport that you play luckily, so you get a lot of people coming in, going to that gear day, where they get their 100 pieces of gear and then they'll quit the team, because the system just doesn't fit for them or there's a new recruiting class coming in that replaces you and the coach wants their recruiting class, or if the coach changes, that just throws the entire team in disarray, but it's such a difficult challenge. And you see that even in NBA, where you'll have I think there was a sixth man drafted for...I think Patrick Williams was a sixth man on his team and he's the fourth draft or the fourth pick of the NBA draft. But yeah, I can see how you can get stuck there.

Christina Gaskin:
I think that another big realization for me was, I grew up playing in basket in this country where you are largely surrounded by volunteers or people that are basically within the school because they're passionate about the sport. There's no real money and that's not a secret for anyone. So anyone that's involved in basketball in this country, for the most part is doing so because they're extremely passionate about the game, and coming from that motivation, I think allows players to feel comfortable and confident that that coach has their best interests at heart, because they want you to succeed as much as they want to succeed. But I think because of the financial element, when you play in college and the pressure that's put on coaches to win at all costs and to have to succeed and make sure that they have a winning program, that funnels down towards the players.

Christina Gaskin:
And I think you're no longer seen necessarily as an athlete, but you're seen as an asset to them within the program. And so if you're an asset that's not producing, then you can sometimes get overlooked or you can get undervalued whereas growing up in the UK, because we're surrounded by people that aren't doing it for a financial gain, then they really do, I think, have your best interests at heart for the most part. And obviously I'm generalizing, but that was a big adjustment for me, to realize that the sport and the passion that I had was manipulated into a business environment and having to have that mindset that it's a business and I need to turn up and perform every day and do my job and not just play because I really loved the sport.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, we don't have to turn this into an NCAA podcast because Skylar and I have some pretty strong opinions there, where you are professional athletes and you are taken advantage of by the coaches and the systems and you become those free assets, but we don't have to get into that. If you haven't read your blog posts or listen to your different stories on how college basketball almost killed you, I encourage you to do that, it's an incredibly powerful piece. But we don't have to cover it here because we've covered it in a number of different places. So I want to move on to after Fordham, what excited you about the opportunity to go back to the UK and to play on the WBBL?

Christina Gaskin:
So I think for me, my main quest on returning back home, initially I wasn't going to play basketball again. I worked in real estate in New York for a long time after I graduated and I thought I wouldn't play basketball again. But then working in Westminster in London, I realized I actually really miss the game and I want to get back into it in a capacity where my main priority is to find enjoyment in playing again as a number one, and obviously working at the time in London, the logical transition for me was to play with the London... Gosh, I don't know why I'm starting to[crosstalk 00:13:45]. The London Lions, there we go.

Brian Bosche:
Yes, the London Lions.

Christina Gaskin:
I played for them for two years and I can't remember their...

Brian Bosche:
No worries.

Christina Gaskin:
So I played with the Lions for a couple years, and then I was playing in a game actually where a European scout was watching the game afterwards, because he was the agent of one of the players on the team and he was trying to find her a professional team overseas. And he actually reached out to me and said, "Look, have you ever considered playing professionally?" And obviously at that point that wasn't really a consideration in my mind, but I wasn't really ready to launch myself fully into the workforce and to give up on basketball and to retire per se. So I worked with him and that's when I was able to sign my first professional contract playing in Italy.

Brian Bosche:
Wow. So going back, how long was the gap between you graduating and working and then actually going and playing professional?

Christina Gaskin:
Probably about three years actually.

Skylar Smith:
Brian is asking this question for himself[crosstalk 00:14:42]

Brian Bosche:
That's a little longer than me. I'm trying to get back into it.

Skylar Smith:
He's just trying to get back.

Brian Bosche:
NBL teams out there, just use the visa spot on me if you're listening, not a big deal. Three years is a little shorter though, I'm 10 years now and it might be a lost cause at this point. What was playing for the BA Lions like? So you mentioned you signed your first professional contract, was it more amateur at that time? I know the WBBL started in what, 2011 or something, so it's more recent. So what was it playing then? And what's the difference between that and signing your first contract?

Christina Gaskin:
So it's an interesting setup with the BA London Lions because they are attached or affiliated with an academy structure. So a lot of the up and coming talent that are looking to go to America, they play in the league with the priority of developing those players. But then they obviously, to be able to be competitive, they surround themselves with normally a few other professional players to raise the standard and obviously just help them be able to get through the season and compete against some of the better teams in the league.

Christina Gaskin:
So at the time, a lot of my experience there having returned from America was mentoring and leading the team, and trying to... You know when you're surrounded by a team with younger players, you have a lot of teething problems where you've got to try and not only teach them how to do something, but why it's important to do something. And that's quite often a struggle and although I'm very passionate about giving back and helping other people following in my footsteps at the same time, sometimes you just want to rock up to a practice and just play and not have to do the whole leadership component and worry about other different developmental things that you have to take care of.

Brian Bosche:
Yes. I love the teething problems reference.

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
You won the trophy last season with The Riders. What was that journey like, to get the trophy before the season was canceled?

Christina Gaskin:
When I look back, I think that we were extremely fortunate to be in that position. One, to be playing in a league where there is an opportunity to win a championship so early in the season, quite often you'll play the whole season before you get to play offs and so-

Brian Bosche:
I know, we're wrapping our heads around trophy, cup and championship. It makes sense. It's good that you can... I wish the MBA did something similar, but I'm like, "The trophy is not the championship, but it's not the cup." We're still learning.

Christina Gaskin:
I know, but you win a trophy if you win the cup and then you win[crosstalk 00:17:11]. I was even confused when I first came back to decipher the difference. I was just trying to win every weekend, I didn't know what that necessarily meant. But yeah, so we were really fortunate to be able to benefit from the fact that the league is structured this way and to be able to have a final so early on in the season. And I think we had an extremely talented team last year, so I think if we hadn't have had the opportunity to play that game, I think I would have always thought what if? What could we have done if the season had to go on a little bit longer? And I think a lot of teams internationally would have turned round and said they had unfinished business last season, like Oregon in the States, which one of my current teammates-

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, Holly Winterburn.

Christina Gaskin:
...used to play with. Yeah. I think that, they'll probably look like, what could they have done? Would they have gone all the way and won the NCAA championship? And at least we can turn around and say that we had the opportunity, we got to play in a final as a team. Because it was very much touch and go, it wasn't something that was guaranteed at the time, and I think that we're all very grateful for that experience.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. You snuck in a win there before everything was canceled. I think your Instagram post was like, "We might get COVID because we played in this, but at least we snuck out with a trophy before we all went into lockdown." Which that, March, that early on, it was a little scary, should we be playing? I remember playing in our league games here in the States. It's like, "Ooh, are we supposed to be on the court right now or not?"

Christina Gaskin:
Right. Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
You snagged the win.

Christina Gaskin:
In hindsight, I think if we knew what we knew now then that championship would have definitely not gone[crosstalk 00:18:42]. So it was the ignorance is bliss kind of, we allowed to play that championship without any forethought of what was about to come.

Brian Bosche:
Absolutely. And so we watched this weekend, love that the Riders and the Eagles live stream the WBBL games. It's hard to watch WBBL games without going in person. And obviously we can't go in person now, but I like that they actually streamed this weekend and you re-signed along and Kate Oliver who had an incredible game yesterday, Sara Hinriksdottir

Christina Gaskin:
Hinriksdottir, yes.

Brian Bosche:
Great and you brought on Holly Winterburn as we discussed this year so your team is stacked, you are loaded, I would expect you to be one of the big favorites this year. You've been undefeated coming in and re-signing the season. What has it been like preparing, what were your expectations for the season? What has it been like getting ready after that trophy a win last year?

Christina Gaskin:
I think that it was really nice to know that, particularly Kate was going to come back and rejoin the team because Sara's studying with me this year. So we were both doing our Masters, so I knew that that was going to be the case. But I think arguably, I think Kate is the best five in the league. In terms of versatility, some may argue that Joyner with the Wildcats is also up for contention to that position, but I think that Kate wins it in terms of being able to have her outside threat, as well as inside threat.

Brian Bosche:
We went over here sequence yesterday, she hit a three, she did a backdoor cut, reverse layup, and she did a post move and the announcers were like, "Holy shit she is doing everything out there."

Christina Gaskin:
And that's truly how she is as a player. If you stop her in the post, then she can step out and shoot the three. So I think that it's lovely to have saw her back as well obviously a big score for us last year led the team in a lot of categories. So I was confident coming in and then obviously the excitement in having Holly Winterburn returning from America and joining us, that was a huge signing for us. But not forgetting other people like Hannah Robb, who just had our first debut with the Senior National Team, and then obviously you've got Ella Clark, who's played on the Senior National Team in the past. So we really do have a lot of depth and I think one of our biggest advantages this year probably similar to last year is that if they take away one of our scoring threats, then someone else can step up.

Christina Gaskin:
So it's really hard to probably scout and prepare for us as a team, because not only in any position, like Kate for example who can score both inside and out, we also then have two or three players that can do something similar. So I think that we do take collective responsibility offensively and we play really well as a team. I think that's a testament to the fact that we've had an extremely long preseason as well.

Brian Bosche:
Yes.

Christina Gaskin:
I think we were up training at the end of August. So we've had a lot of time to prepare. And I think looking at the sort of systems that we tried to put in last year, which is similar to what we're doing this year, I think it took us far longer last year to get to certain defensive rotations or defensive nuances where we're already at that point this year. So it's really great and I think, yes, for our coaches already acknowledged that, so...

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. I mean, you were one of the WBBL players of the week, last week I think we watched yesterday, you're doing a lot of dirty work, you're getting the offensive rebounds, kicking it out, you're getting the blocks, you're playing good defense. What would you say your role is on this team where you obviously have a lot of talent?

Christina Gaskin:
I think for me, one of my roles is to shoot the ball when I'm open, but like you said, I think I'm a defensive player more than an offensive player.

Brian Bosche:
You didn't miss any threes yesterday.

Christina Gaskin:
True.

Brian Bosche:
That must have felt good, no?

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah. So I try and focus on playing defense and playing with an out system, getting stops, being aggressive, leading the team in defensive intensity, and then pushing the ball in transition. I don't think we got as many opportunities to do so yesterday, but normally we get a lot more opportunities to run the floor and I like that our coach here allows us to push the ball one through five, he doesn't dictate that we need to outlet it to the point guard, and then walk the floor and run a set. So that can be quite exciting to watch, I think. But then yeah, I think in any given game depending on who we're playing and how we anticipate they'll scout us, then I think everyone's role sort of tweaks a little bit, depending on tactically what we're trying to look for in that game.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

Skylar Smith:
I think every player we bring onto this podcast, we just want to be able to get to know their teammates. I feel like in the NBA, we know these players so well, we have a good grip on their personalities and we just want to get to know the BBL and WBBL players just as well. So we run through these superlatives with every player we bring on. So who's the funniest player on your team?

Christina Gaskin:
Without a doubt, Whitney Allen.

Skylar Smith:
That was a quick answer.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, seriously.

Christina Gaskin:
She's hilarious, both in like, you know when someone's funny, just in their mannerisms, you might be in practice and coach will say something and you'd to scan the room just to sort of read the reactions of people. And she's the person that has it written all over her face.

Skylar Smith:
Just can't hide it.

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah. So that makes me laugh and she's just funny in general. But in terms of... You want to know who I think the funniest person in the league is, is Rheanne Bailey. She plays at Manchester, and I played junior basket with her, hilarious. Probably one of the funniest people I know.

Brian Bosche:
Does that translate to on-court too? Are they funny on the court?

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah, even when I play Rheanne, you know when you just have a little friendly banter during the game, you're talking about stuff, just as a joke, yeah. I look forward to playing Manchester just to have that conversation with her.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. The free throw line banter where you're just waiting for the... yeah, just elbowing each other, yeah.

Skylar Smith:
Yeah. Going off of that, is there a good trash talker on your team? Who's got the best trash talk.

Brian Bosche:
Oh, see, I don't think that we have that on our team. And sometimes I wish that we did, just for entertainment purposes-

Skylar Smith:
You can always sign me if you need me. I got you. That can be my role.

Brian Bosche:
Just the heckler from the sidelines.

Christina Gaskin:
Honestly. I just think that we're quite humble in the way that we act on... Well, I hope that we come across to other people. Yeah. So I think we have that person,

Brian Bosche:
Nothing from Holly? She looks she gets a snarl on sometimes, but it seems she attacks more in that mode than maybe trash talking.

Christina Gaskin:
I feel like if people get annoyed, you can tell because they'll just go at someone. It will translate into how they're playing versus what they're saying.

Skylar Smith:
Who has the best style on the team. And I'm going to say, you can say yourself because I have stalked you on Instagram and you have great style.

Christina Gaskin:
No, I wasn't gonna say myself. I was going say probably Holly actually, Holly or Sara. But when I say the best style, they probably just the two people that if someone said, "Who do you want to switch wardrobes with?" Those would be the two people.

Skylar Smith:
That's a good[crosstalk 00:25:58]

Christina Gaskin:
Holly's got so many cool things from Oregon and from... yeah, she gets sent things from Nike. So it's really cool.

Brian Bosche:
If you want gear, go to University of Oregon, you got the Nike connection there. I have another one for the team. Who's the glue person on the team or the locker room person, you often hear that, who brings the whole team together?

Christina Gaskin:
I would probably say Kate and myself. I think that's something that it's been consistent across my basketball career is, and obviously been in various situations where, when I played in Italy, I was one of the more important people on the team, but I've also played in college where, a lot of my later part of my college career I sat on the bench. And then being here, it's not important to me that I score 10, 15 points in a game and have a double double or make the all star five, it's important to me that we win. And so I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to invoke that motivation and willingness to win from others. And so I do take pride in trying to keep everyone on the same page, trying to keep everyone positive and encouraging, motivate people, both in practice and in games.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. I mean, you can see it on the court. I was like, "Shoot, shoot, shoot." Yesterday, I'm like, "You're coming on the pod, let's get another three." And you just kick it out to the open person, you're unselfish. I was like, "Oh, be more selfish for the podcast, Christina come on." We want to glow[crosstalk 00:27:23]

Christina Gaskin:
Something I'm working on in my life as well, but it's a struggle.

Brian Bosche:
That's another podcast. What young players should we really be looking out for, maybe on the Riders or in the WBBL in general, who are you really impressed by for some up-and-comers?

Christina Gaskin:
So on our team we have a younger player, she has been training with us since preseason Katie Januszewska, and I'm commentating a little bit at the moment in some of her Division one game. So I'm really trying to get her to name pronunciation down, but I feel like I just got it wrong again. She was under 16 last year and she had gains where she scored in excess of 35, 40 points.

Brian Bosche:
Jeez.

Christina Gaskin:
So she's really someone to look look out for. But then obviously she played in Division two, I believe last year as well, and still dominated in that league. So like, it was really time this year for her to step off into the next level and to be able to train with us every day and to compete with a lot of professional players with a lot of experiences, I think is going to do her the world of good.

Christina Gaskin:
I think you can tell when someone's going to, or has the potential to develop into a great player because they just listen, they're willing to learn and they listen and there's a lot of talented players out there that just think they already know the answer or just like, you'll speak to them but they don't want to hear it. And I think having someone that just wants to soak up as much knowledge as possible, really listens and tries to understand, and even ask questions, I think that's a real recipe for success with junior players.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, it's certainly-

Christina Gaskin:
I'm excited to follow her career and see how she does.

Brian Bosche:
Just like you mentioned, where you are playing in the UK, then you go to Europe and your eyes open up a little bit wider and you see how the level increases. It's even in the States growing up in AAU, there's always a level above you. So be humble, you can always be learning, especially from the better players and the people older than you. But yeah, everyone, every young player should take that lesson of listen and try to learn because you're not going to be the best player in the world.

Christina Gaskin:
A hundred percent.

Skylar Smith:
Coachability is so important. We mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that you are a marketing consultant. We would love for you to grace us with some knowledge. What do you think the WBBL can do to grow interest in basketball in the UK? Let's tap into that marketing brain a little bit.

Brian Bosche:
This is a big question too.

Skylar Smith:
It is a big question.

Christina Gaskin:
It is a huge question. No pressure, but I think that one of the struggles that we face in the WBBL in the female league in this country is that there's so little money. So obviously you have to spend a little money to make a little bit of money. And I think I'm a big believer in that concept. So it is hard to sort of run initiatives and to develop the game without that resource. But having said that, I think that a lot of clubs have had success partnering with schools and local grassroots program, and really trying to develop the community program within the area that they exist in. So for us, that means community coaching that we host at the university and we also go round to, in a non-COVID world, we go around to primary schools.

Christina Gaskin:
I did a lot of assemblies last year where I spoke to the entire school around my pathway in basketball and how joining and playing sport, even if it's not basketball is a really positive thing. So just spreading the word, because I think one of the struggles that we have in England in general is that basketball was not played from a young age. It's not something that you do in primary school and sometimes not even in secondary school. So offering that as an option within schools and partnering within schools, I think a great way to grow the community aspect of the game and to grow participation levels from the ground up. But again, I'm not denying the reality that I do think that more needs to be done in terms of partnering with perhaps even corporations that have women corporate board members that are really passionate about sport and really want to give back to female sport and finding investment in that way and being a little bit more creative and working out how we can see it as a more of a charitable aspect as opposed to a business investment.

Christina Gaskin:
Because I think sometimes in the past, you're probably familiar with the Royals that joined the league for one season then had a lot of financial, were rumored to have a lot of financial issues and then no longer exists now.

Brian Bosche:
Yes, it burned out quickly.

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah. So I think sometimes the struggle is that, we have investors or people that come in and have these lofty ambitions and have this idea of what they want to do, save British basketball and transform the heritage of and the direction of British basketball in this country. But I don't think that they realistically sit down and think about how they're going to do that. How are they going to increase the amount of funds that they're going to have at games? And then they suddenly realize, they get a few months into the season and they are like, "This return on my investment that I was expecting, because I was expecting to fill out the Copper Box or whatever arena it may be, is not quite there."

Christina Gaskin:
But you didn't really have a real strategy behind doing so. And I think that comes from having people that have both a business and basketball mindset. Quite often, I'm working on a project right now with Basketball England into junior athletes transition from being in this country to go into America and how we can support that and provide more resource. But they brought me on board because I'm very familiar with basketball and I've also lived the experience, but then they've obviously got the resource and the investments to be able to bring it to life. And I think those kinds of partnerships really make sense. And in this country, we do have a lot of really great business people and people within the basketball network. But I think sometimes communication is lacking and we don't really unify to create one strategy to really grow both the national programs and the domestic leagues. We look at, we are still on little islands and try and do things in isolated ways. So there was[crosstalk 00:33:35]

Skylar Smith:
That was a big question and you nailed it.

Christina Gaskin:
Thank you.

Brian Bosche:
It's solved. There you go WBBL.

Skylar Smith:
We just gave you the answer.

Brian Bosche:
No, I mean it's-

Christina Gaskin:
It's not easy. I say all that and I know it's not easy. Even the project that I've been working on with Basketball England, you've got a lot of people with a lot of different perspectives. So trying to bring everyone together and make sense of it and develop something at the end that makes a difference, it's not always straightforward.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah. Well, coming in from Americans, it's like, okay there's 66 million people, there are so many sports fans in the UK. Basketball is one of the most played sports for youth it's taught in schools. The NBA is huge, NBA 2K is huge. Why isn't basketball more popular? Why aren't there more resources in the BBL and WBBL? And that's where you see maybe like," Hey, we can come save British basketball with just some investment." Then you get burnt out quickly. And I think what you're talking about of investing in the community and the schools and the programs is such a powerful piece because we see that in the WNBA in the States, we're lucky enough to be very close to the championship Seattle Storm, which I knew I would slip that in there. Every episode, go Storm, but you see the crowds and it is a lot of the youth development programs.

Brian Bosche:
It's a lot of the community. It's a lot of the schools that are fans, as opposed to in contrast to the NBA. So I think that's such a powerful piece. What do you see or, what are some of your thoughts on 777 Partners who bought the London Lions and you see the government putting in more investment, I guess it's a loan, but it seems this season, there is a lot more momentum for British basketball. Whether it's in Euro Basket, or the London Lions going into Europe, do you feel that energy on the ground that there is momentum, or does it feel another one of these London Royals come in and try to save British basketball thing?

Christina Gaskin:
I think that any investment is good. I just would love to see the longevity and consistency of that investment, obviously because we've seen in the past that people sort of get their toes in the water and then realize quickly that actually it doesn't give them the retirement they want and quickly withdrawal from the situation. So I'm hesitant in saying that I think that it's going to be a long-term success, but at the same time, I don't want to discredit the organization and the ambition that they have in terms of returning to Europe. It's something that, having been previously part of the Lions Club, that they've been looking to do for a long time and now obviously with the finances available to do so, I think that is a positive thing for the league.

Christina Gaskin:
And I think in hearing the recent rumor that they're looking to perhaps invest in the wider league of the WBBL BBL. I think that would be a really positive thing because I think that you can't just bring one team... Sorry, I lost you there, you can't just bring one team up in isolation. I think that you need to look at the entirety of the league. Because a lot of all of discussion, obviously in preseason this year was, wow, Lion's just signed another player, another guy, and another player-

Brian Bosche:
Another NBA player.

Christina Gaskin:
Are they just going to be everyone in the BBL by 50? And then their priority is going to go to European competitions. And that arguably doesn't necessarily raise the profile of the league as a whole. It perhaps just raises the profile of that one team.

Christina Gaskin:
And so I think that it would be a really wise decision for them to invest in the broader landscape of the league, and then give other opportunities to be able to sign more notable talent. Not that we don't have great talented players already playing in the league, but I think that brings excitement for fans as well. People that love to come and watch an NBA game when they play in London, all of a sudden, maybe if they can sign some [inaudible 00:37:28] players they can create more excitement around the game domestically.

Brian Bosche:
Just the storytelling around the players too, is so huge if they have that marketing budget. Because you're talking about the funniest player in the league, the one who has the best style, as fans we don't see a lot of that. There's not an investment in telling those stories and getting us interested in the games through the players, which is largely how the NBA and WNBA have become successful. So yeah, I would love to see more investment there and I think you're right, it's just the consistency part of it. You've got to see it for the years and it takes a long time to change the culture.

Christina Gaskin:
Right. And if they're willing to obviously put this investment in over five years, which they have initially committed to, then as long as there's a strategy on the line and there's obviously a good marketing campaign or plan to execute to continue to develop Lions as a brand and maybe the BBL as a whole, then I'm sure that that will go a long way to making a big difference.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, well you're on the Sky now, or at least the BBL is starting there. Maybe they'll pull up some WBBL games, but first TV deal, what since the two thousands, the Arts.?

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah.

Brian Bosche:
Which is crazy. So yeah, looking forward to seeing it on TV because I think that was a big thing that they were trying to push up. Hey, we have all these viewers, we have this huge audience, which you can see on YouTube and the live streams. I'm really glad that they're doing a more of a production, which starts this Thursday actually, I think.

Christina Gaskin:
That's really exciting. No, it's a definitely... There's been a lot of speak obviously around the league path and et cetera.

Brian Bosche:
Oh, yes.

Christina Gaskin:
So we won't go there, but yeah, we can[inaudible 00:39:01]

Brian Bosche:
You mean the single club pass?

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah.

Skylar Smith:
Brian, don't be mischievous. Don't be mischievous. We'll move on, we'll wrap up here. We came off some heavy questions. We'll finish on a light one. The Riders are off to a hot start the season. What message do you have for Riders fans going into this upcoming, or I guess you're in it, going into this season?

Christina Gaskin:
Yeah, I think that it's a little bit of a different season, but hopefully we do a really good job at Leicester of providing media content and keeping the fans up to date with games. We really appreciate the ongoing support that we have from various different age groups and people. And hopefully, when it comes to playing our probably biggest game of the season against Seven Oaks, we can see something slightly different this year. We beat them last year when it mattered to get through to the final of the trophy, but we obviously lost to them earlier in the season last year. So I think that's going to be the big game of the season and something to really look out for, for provider's fans going forward.

Skylar Smith:
As new American fans, is it a Seven Oaks rivalry with the Riders? I see you going back and forth on all of the standings going back years. Is that the big rivalry and the WBBL?

Christina Gaskin:
I think it's our biggest competition. Seven Oaks have won the league for the last, I'm not sure. They've had a very, good run for the last five or six years. So they're always the team that you want to knock off that pedestal a little bit. And they have tremendous talent. They recruit very well, a lot of the core group have been playing together for several years now. So yeah, it will be a really great challenge for us. And I think those are the games that I'm most excited about because you get the opportunity to see who turns up and play that basketball people on that day.

Brian Bosche:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you're on to the WBBL cup semi-finals, which I think is against the Cardiff Met Archers, which we also watched this weekend where they lost to Lions. So the Lions only won one, but it was against the Archers, which we watched. So best of luck there. And thank you so much for coming on Christina. We really appreciate it.

Christina Gaskin:
Thank you so much for having me.